Disappointed

I'm beginning to think that I was not meant for this age of optimization. I don't think I've ever seen over 45mpg on a tank!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 21 2007, 10:41 PM) [snapback]542827[/snapback]</div>

Maybe less lead foot might help? :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Nov 18 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]541192[/snapback]</div>

Go on - you know it makes sense

Anyways...I want to read what you have to say

 

Some time back when a new member signed up and posted they had a commute of only a few miles I posted the Prius was not the car they should buy because the very low mileage would use very little fuel in a conventional vehicle anyway therefore the added cost for the hybrid system and the carbon footprint of producing the car meant it wasn't going to be worth while and they would soon be whining about poor fuel consumption driving down the value of my car and perhaps adding fuel to the anti-hybrid mobs argument. I said a Camry or Yaris and a scooter or bicycle could be a smarter investment. I was told in no uncertain way to butt out.
Now what do we have here?

My other sugestion, stuff the grill and get a block heater and timer.

<Holding my hands over my head waiting for a hail of rocks>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Nov 22 2007, 04:54 AM) [snapback]542861[/snapback]</div>

What would the Camry or Yaris get in the same situation though? I do not think you can compare the Yaris' bets milage against the reduced milage of the Prius in this context. To be accurate you would have to lower the Yaris milage as well since it's engine will not be warmed up in such a short distance and would still be in "warm-up" mode.

*tosses a BFR for good measure*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Nov 22 2007, 07:54 AM) [snapback]542861[/snapback]</div>

 

at least with a Yaris your short commute isn't trying to heat 8 liters of coolant to 87C. At best you'd only be heating 4 liters to 87C. In cold climates with a Prius on a short commute it's not the best cooling system for attaining the best thermal efficiency. Even if you have a long commute one day and then the next 2 or 3 short commutes the thermos is now holding back the heating of the ICE to efficient operating temperature. Still better than most of the Priustoric vehicles out there but still not the best for short commutes. Block heater and grill blocking will help, that's a given.

 

As a real commuter (75 miles round trip), I get about 55 mpg or over pretty much year round. Up to 60 mpg in the summer, down to about 55 mpg in the winter. However, when I'm only driving around town, I'm lucky to get up to 50mpg, unless I've got some freeway driving to do, the car just doesn't get warmed up enough on around town trips. When I had a much shorter commute (just a few miles each way), again I hardly ever got into the 50+ mpg range. Mostly mid to upper 40's. But then, I wasn't driving many miles, so wasn't using much gas at all.

From my experience, the big boosts in gas mileage come after the car has taught you how to drive it. When I first got the car, I was hard-pressed to get up to 40 mpg. Over time, I learned to accelerate as little as possible, look ahead and avoid stopping whenever possible, use the minimal gas pedal pressure to maintain speed, and glide as much as possible. Using the screen that has the energy flow arrows on it lets you see when you are gliding with no arrows, which you get a feel for after while. And so on. Tire inflation adds a little, but it isn't big percentage-wise. I sure notice when my tires are down, my mpg meter is apparently also a tire inflation meter. Same commute every day, mpg variations tell me a lot.

So I would reserve judgement until you've been driving the car for some months, and have a chance to get in tune with it.

The plug-in hybrid conversions have caught my eye, but before that makes sense we're going to have to switch to more ecologically sensible way of generating plug-in energy here in California. In the mean time, I intend to get the most out of what's available to me with my car.

-Roger

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 22 2007, 10:39 AM) [snapback]542906[/snapback]</div>

Pat isn't comparing the Yaris' best against the Prius actual. Pat's saying for a short commute, it just takes longer to pay off the "hybrid premium", although we've got kind of thin skin on this chat site when it comes to that term. So why not get a less expensive car that costs less carbon to create. (True for the Yaris, I'm not sure how a Camry fits in that category though). Consumer Reports likes the Versa and Fit better than the Yaris, I haven't ridden in any of these, so I can't speak for them. It's certainly true that the smaller the vehicle the less your carbon footprint, and a scooter or bicycle is much better. Walking shoes is the ultimate of course. These are all range-limited, but for a short commute would be fine.

A Prius makes more sense when your commute is longer, which is why I switched with my wife - I drive the Accord for my new 3-mile commute (I don't like to bike in the dark, so that option is out until Daylight Savings Time comes back), and she drives the Prius on her 35-mile commute. It doesn't make sense to trade in a good car for another Prius for the 3-mile commute, even if I would save an average of 1/2 gallon of gas a week, or 12 gallons/year (since I also bike part time). Even after 5 years I wouldn't save enough gas to pay off the creation of a new vehicle. (The sticky question is if it would be the difference between a hybrid and an equivalent non-hybrid, assuming you're buying a new car of some type anyway.)

The real measurement we should pay attention to is gallons/month. MPG is a relative term that is only half the equation of our carbon footprint.

p.s. I changed my avatar today - took a picture of our shadow as we were driving along the interstate, getting about 52 mpg on one of our rare long drives, about 350 miles in this case. It was cold, but I have the grill stuffed, tires at 39/37 and we kept it under 70mph the whole way, and drafted one or two hundred feet behind semi's for a fair bit.

 

With my 3 mile commute I can attest to this. Also I have noticed that when our area changes to winter formulation gasoline the mileage drops down about 10-20 percent because of all the addetives. All I have to do to bump mileage back up again is buy gas at a county ontside the Chicago collar counties. Nothing else.


A Prius makes more sense when your commute is longer, which is why I switched with my wife - I drive the Accord for my new 3-mile commute (I don't like to bike in the dark, so that option is out until Daylight Savings Time comes back), and she drives the Prius on her 35-mile commute. It doesn't make sense to trade in a good car for another Prius for the 3-mile commute, even if I would save an average of 1/2 gallon of gas a week, or 12 gallons/year (since I also bike part time). Even after 5 years I wouldn't save enough gas to pay off the creation of a new vehicle. (The sticky question is if it would be the difference between a hybrid and an equivalent non-hybrid, assuming you're buying a new car of some type anyway.)

The real measurement we should pay attention to is gallons/month. MPG is a relative term that is only half the equation of our carbon footprint.

p.s. I changed my avatar today - took a picture of our shadow as we were driving along the interstate, getting about 52 mpg on one of our rare long drives, about 350 miles in this case. It was cold, but I have the grill stuffed, tires at 39/37 and we kept it under 70mph the whole way, and drafted one or two hundred feet behind semi's for a fair bit.
[/quote]

 

Comparisons like that are annoying.
Even at 40'ish MPG, 300 miles would require about 7 gallons of gas , costing say, $21.00 in the Prius.
The Odyssey would require about 18 gallons , costing $54.00.
Even when it "sucks" the Prius wins hands down. Wait till it warms up, learn to drive it, and the Prius is capable of about 5 gallons of gas over 300 miles. Costing about $15 . Mine does. Let's see......$15 vs. $54

 

My MPG has dropped a ton to what I think is caused by the Weather. During the summer I was getting 57-60, now I'm barely getting 50. Its got just under 12k miles, Im hoping once it warms up again, so will my mpg!

 

I get about 900km (over 550 miles) from a tank in my Prius which is the same as yours, what are you doing differently to me?

 

I drive short trips and was able to improve my mpg. Changing routes to reduce red lights helped. Another big increase occured when I changed my oil to Mobil-1 5W-30 synthetic. Grille-blocking with foam pipe insulation also was an incredible help during the cold periods.

Not trying to compete with the other prius drivers for most mpg or most miles per tank will help your state of mind immeasurably. I feel that I won my competition the day I bought the Prius and left the world of gasoline-only vehicles behind.

 

Longer trips is really the key here. The Prius takes a bigger MPG hit than most other cars I know of when it comes to engine warm-up because its 60/48 mpg city rating (depending on which EPA number you read) strongly depends on the car turning the engine off while you're coasting at 40mph or under and at stop lights. The car won't turn the engine off when it's cold, instead aiming to warm it up to a decent temperature as quickly as possible, and if you don't drive far enough for the engine to reach that point, you lose a lot of the advantage.

I am often amused that I can increase my average MPG quite easily on my commute to work (20 miles, 18 of them freeway) but then when I drive the mile to the BART station to pick up my wife it all goes away. Them's the breaks.

In the end, though, a mile not driven saves more gas and more emissions than a mile driven at a substantially higher fuel efficiency. You might get 200 miles per tank doing 5 miles a day, but that's still 40 days... as opposed to me getting 500 doing 40 miles a day and having to fill up a bit less than every two weeks.

 

Hi Elcorazon,

The EPA city cycle is a bit misnamed for somebody who lives in a big city, or a city with heavy downtown traffic. Its not a "downtown" or "sidestreet" test cycle. But more like a suburban commute cycle to someone who lives in Chicagoland. Yes, there are some stop lights, but it there are also speeds up to 55 mph for a few minutes at a time.

People have mentioned some things you can do about your mileage. Its also mentioned in several general information articles about better gas mileage to drive out to the farthest stop away from home first, then do the balance of the stops working one's way back to home. This warms the engine up fully, which then gives good mileage in the slower and stoping operation on the return half of the trip. This works quite well in the Prius as it has the thermos bottle which helps keeps the hot engine coolant warm during the short stops.

Look on this web site for "grill blocking" articles. If your in the Chicagoland area, its been somewhat cold for the past three days. I have been running all the grills blocked but the lowest slit, using pipe insulation tubing, since the temperature was below 32 degrees. On Saturday I used the engine block heater for 2 1/2 hours before starting the car at 10 am, and -2 degrees F here. Then went out and did all my errands for the day. Sunday was only a little warmer, and this morning was 10 F, and the trip home about 25 F. They are saying that today will be the warmest day of the week.

 

remember to press reset on the consumption screen every fill up or it will change too slowly to notice.