Diesels more popular than hybrids? (. . . except for . . .)

And if you write one negative comment about the big VW group, you will NEVER get invited to attend any test drives again. That would be commercial suicide for any magazine.

WhatCar in the UK are totally blatant in their bias towards ANY of the VW group products (VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat etc). You won't see ANY of their cars rated below a 4/5, but successful best sellers, inc number 1 best sellers, from Honda or Toyota or even Ford often get 2/5 ratings. It is almost unheard of for a non VW group company to get the 5/5 rating.

Either as a magazine they're way off track (possible), or money, freebies, weekends away, meals out, food, drink etc talks.

They lost me as a customer when this rot started, but how many don't notice? Check out the big difference between how the magazine rate a car and the owners.

Car reviews - New & Used Car Reviews - What Car?

 

Shhh, let's not get the Germans all riled up again.

 

Look.
I'm not a hybrid cheerleader by anybody's definition but out here in the real world?
Hybrids just work better for POVs than diesels do.
They're more fuel efficient. (source: fuelly.com)
They're cleaner. (Two sources: The EPA and my nose.)
The fuel is MUCH cheaper. (Source: GasBuddy.com)

...and as much as Toyota dealerships like to rape their customers for service? They're positively philanthropic compared to das Volkswagen dealers, which of course is why there are a lot more Yota dealerships out there!!

Diesels are wonderful at some things.
Like I said in an earlier post.
I wouldn't go on a submarine without one. I just wouldn't use it as my primary source of transportation.

I'm glad that clean diesel technology is here, because they're needed for some forms of transportation. You will note the lack of hybrids in large truck fleets for example.
Volkswagens are orders of magnitude more fun to drive than ANY Prius ever will be and their build quality is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.
They just don't stay that way.

If and when diesels get to be "better" than hybrids?
They won't have to put goofy disclaimers in their ads like:
We're more efficient!***
(*** compared to our gas version only)

 

How about Ich bin ein Prius Fahrer.

 

Not in all cases.

For example, the 2014 BMW 535d has essentially the same mileage (per fueleconomy.gov) and performance figures (per Car and Driver) as the 2014 Lexus GS450h...

0-60 mph performance essentially the same; weight essentially the same; Cd = 0.27 for both; effective frontal area essentially the same (1138 in^2 for 535d, 1120 in^2 for GS450h); EPA official fuel mileage essentially the same @ 43%/57% (32 mpg); effective fuel mileage essentially the same per C&D (27.7 mpgge (E10) for 535d, 27 mpg for GS450h)

2014 BMW 535d Diesel Test – Review – Car and Driver

2013 Lexus GS450h Hybrid Test – Review – Car and Driver

Again, not in all cases.

The examples above (535d vs. GS450h) have the following composite vehicle emissions per official certified CARB data...

Emission....................2014 535d….........2014 GS 450h (SULEV)

NMOG+NOx..................0.017........................0.023
CO..................................0.11..........................0.09
PM.................................0.001........................Not Reported


http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2014/bmw_pc_a0080351_3d0_u2_diesel.pdf

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2014/toyota_pc_a0140840_3d5_s2_hevge.pdf

By the way, there's no smell whatsoever from post 2007 diesels, even at cold start in an enclosed garage.

I do, and so far (55K miles) I'm very happy with it. Most of our driving is highway/rural (~75%), and diesels generally do very well in those driving cycle mixes (it's achieving close to the official "highway" mileage under those conditions).

I don't disagree with your other points, but opposition to diesel on environmental grounds is not legitimate, IMHO.

 

^ You'll have to pardon my ignorance, but the "emissions" data above look like you're comparing ONE car to another ONE car WRT emissions, and you seem to be making my point exactly.

I have a gas Pickup truck that gets a little bit better mileage than an Escalade Hybrid, so following your logic?
Gas trucks are more fuel efficient than hybrids.
Environmentalism is subjective.
Many people who could afford to drive 30-mpg luxury cars chose to instead drive 50-mpg hybrids for environmental reasons.
Their whole thing is that fuel efficiency is an environmental force multiplier, and in this case I'm on their side.
Yeah.
If you chose to roll a BMW?
The ones with a "d" are probably better, just as low-tar cigarettes are probably better than unfiltered Camels.
Just don't try to tell me that the low tar Virginia Slims are (*cough!*)"healthy" !
I'm not always on their side of the fence, especially ideologically but if I have to chose between hybrid self righteousness and diesel self righteousness?

Sorry pal.
They have math and science on their side until you get to bigger vehicles.

BTW.
I wish you well with the BMW.
Since I'm not a liberal, I don't hate on people who make more money than I do....but I am curious.
What does it cost to do preventative maintenance on a BMW?


Good Luck!

 

Well, they're in the same vehicle class with essentially the same specifications. The hybrid version of the 5-series BMW gets significantly less than the 535d, both in official EPA mileage and C&D. The Audi Q5 TDI gets slightly better official mileage than the Q5 hybrid, and the VW Touareg TDI gets better official mileage than the Touareg hybrid. Would you rather me use those comparisons instead? I've been criticized in other forums for using European hybrids to compare to the diesels in the exact same vehicles because Europeans make "bad" hybrids, so I've been told. Thus I used the Lexus (Toyota) hybrid in the same class with essentially the same specs.

Have only had one routine service that I've actually performed on the 335d (comes with free maintenance for 4 years/50K miles). Specified synthetic oil is expensive ($8/liter, IIRC), but the rest of the cost is essentially the same as any other vehicle.

 

Ich weises nicht! Sagan sie mich der Weismann Nicht!

 

I cannot read most of the crap written by most of these so called motoring journalists who know f-all about cars in my opinion.

As you can see from my signature, I'm a fan of VAG cars, and will get a large engined German car in a few years, but in the interim, I'll enjoy the reliability of our two Japanese dailys

 

Just our of curiosity what's the comparison of diesel and petrol prices over in Ireland? Here petrol's £1.29 a litre and diesel £1.37/8 negating most benefit of the extra economy by diesels in many cases.

What's your car tax like too? Does it benefit CO2 or emissions or just based on engine size?

 

I guess VW is using the Jetta Hybrid to hedge its bets. And they also have this. Volkswagen of America < Volkswagen of America

 

They make about as much sense as a gasoline car of similar size.

 

We use 2012 F250 diesel supercabs for towing cars. Tons of power and torque, not smelly at all with the urea which unfortunately we end up having to refill every 3-5k. Towing a 4600lb trailer with a 4800lb car from San Diego to Palm Springs via 15-215-60-10 at 55-60mph they are averaging 16.6mpg. Highest I've seen was 19.2 but that was with a tailwind most likely. I drove the same truck minus trailer to Tucson empty and back with a 750lb engine/transmission combo and averaged 20.1 there and back at speeds of 70-75mph. Our Ram 1500 4.7 gets 19 on the same drive with no weight. I am very pro hybrid and EV but in hauling and towing, diesels are hard to beat.

I personally looked at the Passat and Jetta TDI but due to my commute of 18 miles in 45 min.-1hr, my 57-60mpg is higher than my coworkers Golf TDI getting 36 on the same commute due to the low speeds and idling.

 

When I went from the TDIs to Prii, I figured when I take highway trips my fuel consumption would drop to below what the diesels got. So far, that hasn't been the case. The Gen III do a good job.

 

In France, over 80% of cars are diesel.

Now we suffer the consequencies. Increasing health problem (specially child's lung due to P.M pollution..) and now half of our diesel must be imported...and we sell our over produced gasoline to U.S with cheap price.

So, guys... don't go on the wrong way.