Did you consider a Jetta TDI before going Prius?

Geez Indy, you just can't keep from popping your head out of the hole can you??

Your 'HA, I (or is that Jetta?) WIN' record was CREAMED (nearly 10 MPG better) 2 months later by super hypermilers in a Civic II Hybrid:
Hypermilers complete new Guinness verified World Record at 68.54mpg (US)! - CleanMPG Forums

This, of course, has no bearing on the Jetta TDI vs Prius discussion but I couldn't let you go running around saying the TDI has the world record

If you want a REAL 'which gets better mileage', we need the same team to try it in a Jetta TDI and a 2010 Prius. I don't know what John and Helen did as far as driving to get the best MPG but it wasn't "set the cruise and go" any more than Wayne and company in the Civic.

 

And the source for that new record is where....

 

Oh, sorry MSantos, Bruceha just showed me the source for that new record, thanks!!!

A friend of mine (big Jetta fan) is trying to talk me into buying the TDI instead of the Prius and he was the one who sent me that link with the Jetta record... and then I could not resist publishing it here

 

And are you gonna send back the corrected info/link to him?

 

(Not to fan more flames but

Thank god for this thread. It makes the Prius 2010 decision a no-brainer.

If you have any doubts just pull up the TDI Club 101 forum and look at the thread titles. Almost every single thread is one problem or another that the owners have with their TDI's. It is actually comical.

(Google "TDI Club forum" click on the first site and then go to "TDI 101". Sorry - I cant post links yet!)

VW's Suck!

On the other hand, if you are looking for a good full-time hobby -- get the TDI. It looks like it will keep you busy.

dave t.

 

Actually, the 09 Jetta TDIs have been running smooth so far... the problems reported in the TDI forum are mostly from other VW cars or older Jettas... of course it's too early to say if the 09 Jetta TDI is reliable or not but owners are pretty happy with it so far. Go to Edmunds.com and read the owners reviews if you don't trust me (score for the Jetta TDI is 9.4+).

Again, this is not mean to re-open a can of worms (I have no intention to cause discomfort here), but when you said that the Prius is a no-Brainer, did you actually checked out the new Jetta? I find it really amazing that people actually compare the 2 cars without trying both... and, despite of recognizing that the Prius is a better fit for my needs (does not mean it is the best car be), I do think that some or maybe a few Prius-to-be-owners would have liked the Jetta better if they did they homework before committing to buy the Prius and at least checked the Jetta out...

One more thing, I would not say that the number 1 automobile brand of the world, which just recently beat Toyota in global sales, sucks like you said... just compare the all time stock performance of both companies and tell me which one you like better! VW may indeed suck in the US due to persistent mistakes done in the past, but clearly the rest of the world don't think the so...


Cheers...

 

You assume that VW sales are up because the rest of the world thinks they are better quality cars than Toyota's. You might want to double check that because I think you are jumping to a conclusion that's not valid.

VW sales (and thus stock prices) are doing better because of circumstances: government incentives in VW's main markets (Germany, China & Brazil) to encourage people to dump old cars for new ones. And I expect many of those cars (especially in China and Brazil) to be lower end cars not even sold in the US. See these sites:
Global Dominance Shift: VW may have sold more than Toyota in Q1
Volkswagen May Overtake Toyota as Global Sales Leader ? Automotive News & Car Rumors at Automobile Magazine


While other auto companies also benefit in those countries, VW as a whole does well because they account for 44% of VW's market. In Germany, it looks like Toyota's sales jumped 43% vs. 19% for VW in Q1. So what does all that have to do with your perceived quality of VW vs. Toyota cars?

 

Unlike IndyKing, I've owned VW's and Toyota's and a few other cars. I've owned Toyota diesels overseas. I really like diesels. BUT I bought a 2010 Prius because VW reliability is awful. I know I've owned them and the VW fans always claim that the present year is better than the year before.
Better must mean only 170 days in the shop instead of 180. So in 20 years it will only be in the shop for 30-40 days.
The TDI forums warn all new owners to stay far away from their VW dealers since they know nothing about fixing diesels.
This is not true in Europe and the UK but it sure is in America.
That's not to say that TDI fans don't love their cars but when I buy a new car I don't want it to be like an old Harley and have to screw it all back together after I take a 4 hour ride!

 

I too have found this thread to be most interesting [thanks for your input, Indyking]. I find it interesting because I recall tracking the forums on the VW Jetta thing about 3 - 4 years ago and being equally horrified by what appears to be pretty much the same story today. Everybody loved the handling of the car, but there were non-trivial maintenance issues that kept showing up after the first year or so that the dealers just couldn't seem to fix. One minor thing that I remember is plastic window clips that kept breaking, causing the windows to fall down. As I recall, it took VW three years or more before they finally replaced them with metal clips. This timely :noidea: response to a repetitive problem is not very encouraging. It was reported that the dealer's service reps were so busy that you couldn't even get an appointment for two weeks. Also, I remember the Jetta proponents back then saying that the new car had solved all of the reliability problems...

The thing to remember is that mostly the same people with similar philosophies are probably still working at the company. Maybe it's different this time around, but based on past performance, I'd say the company still has something to prove -- and from my perspective they can prove it on somebody else!

Also, the thought of going out on a cold winter morning and wondering whether or not my new $25,000 car is going to start that morning sends shivers through me...

 

My 2009 Prius with 6k miles has a radio volume knob working only part time.

The service tech saw the problem, quickly ordered a new JBL radio/CD changer unit. No hassles so far. Should be working fine soon.

 

If I was in the market, no. All my VW friends have nothing but issues with them - and fact VWs need special fluids and strict adherence to maintenance issues.

There's a reason why VW and BMW offer free maintenance during the warranty period - they call for very specific fluids which can't be obtained outside of the dealer.

 

Did you consider a Jetta TDI before going Prius?
ound:ound:ound:ound:ound:


:lock1::lock1::lock1::lock1::closed_2: !

 

I don't think so, if you are interested, just don't look at this thread yourself.

 

... And what is your explanation for the all time better performance of VW stocks compared to toyota. You're explanation is I only good for the current global economic situation....

 

Where do people come up with this crazy stuff?

I buy the oil needed for my TDI at Walmart. VW's don't need special fluids that must be purchased at the dealer. However many VW's do have turbocharged engines that require the correct oil. Really all these means is that you have to select the correct oil off the shelf at Walmart or your local autoparts store. Turbocharged engines from any manufacturer don't do well when fed crappy oil from a quick change place.

The rapid rise in VW stock prices was due to Porsche's hostile take-over. Porsche increased their holdings of VW stock from ~ 10% to 51% in a couple of months and was willing to pay crazy prices. The had announced that they were going to buy 75% of VW stock but ran out of money. Now Porsche is in severe debt and looking for a partner to bail them out so they don't go bankrupt.

VW sold more cars than Toyota in the 1st quarter of 2009 because of the different markets they sell in. Toyota is very strong in the Japanese and American markets. These markets have shown a massive decline in sales. VW is strong in Europe and developing countries. These markets have shown smaller declines and the Chinese market even grew.

VW has been doing things right though. They are the only major automaker that I know of that actually made a profit in 2008.

 

Porsche is not going bankrupt, they are the most profitable car company in the world. So much so that they made a run at one of the biggest companies in the world. Just FYI.

 

A google search suggests you may be wrong on this one, Texas911 -- search for "porsche bankrupt" to see for yourself.

 

They had cash flow problems for 3 days because they borrowed money to make the run at VW, and got a "loan" from VW to cover it, weird I know.

Jalopnik - VW loans Porsche $980 million to ward off bankruptcy - Porshe Loans VW $980 million

 

Indyking, thanks for sharing. Let us know in five years how much you've spent for maintenance and repairs on your Jetta.

 

At the request of persistent VW advocates, we looked and found:




The USA EPA finds the Jetta TDI is smaller, less efficient and more polluting than the NHW20 Prius and much worse than the ZVW30 (2010 Prius.) Worse, VW brags about Jetta TDI noise in stark contrast to the quiet quality of our Prius. It would be as if horse advocates bragged about the familiar manure smell to explain why the automobile is doomed to failure.

A couple of years ago, some Jetta advocates came to GreenHybrid claiming the EPA data was inaccurate and their Jetta diesels were competitive with the Prius. But they did not realize that the EPA data includes owner records for both vehicles:


Both the Jetta and Prius owners reported better mileage than the EPA numbers. Although the Jetta error is greater than the Prius, it is not enough to bring it up to the Prius average. Note, I cut off the upper and lower 5% of data to remove the 'out liars.'

So yes, the Jetta TDI advocates have presented their claims and upon any impartial examination, confirmed, absolutely nailed the Jetta TDI coffin closed and the EPA added the super glue. Worse, VW advertises Jetta noise, as if that is a plus. Pathetic, the Jetta is so 20th century ... so retro.

Bob Wilson