Detroit's gung-ho for hybrids

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26\";p=\"110766)</div>

Thus, they turned the market over to their competitors.

By the time the clueless execs realized their mistake, it was too late to turn the market.

C'mon, PS/2 and MicroChannel? Sad.

There have been some good documentaries on this. Folks who couldn't convince IBM execs of their mistake simply quit and went to work for the competitors.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"110790)</div>

MicroChannel was much, much better than the ISA standard, but IBM didn't make it a standard (eg, open the specs up), so it died a horrible and slow death.

But they were robust machines. Back when I worked at a certain retail chain that shall remain nameless but that I'm sure everyone here has been into, the entire stock system for each store was maintained on one single PS/2 (per store, mind you) running IBM OS/2 3.0 (I think it was 3).

Now that was an OS. Again, if it were up to technical merit... well, we'd still be using Amigas.

 

The mistake IBM made was in not understanding the consumer market at all. They only understood the long-cycle proprietary world of mainframes, such as S/360, S/390, etc.

I actually like mainframes, and I prefer the client/server model. I have a lot of faith in the reliability of mainframe computing and hope it continues far into the future.

At the same time, although IBM is credited with "legitimizng" the PC market, they blew it. When their PC came out, I had a C-64. Or was it a VIC-128? Anyway, a very good home machine and with WordPro and later PaperClip, it was all a high school student could ask for.

IBM is the perfect model of a traditional company that simply cannot comprehend - or adjust to - change and competition.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"110798)</div>

IBM was the perfect model... they're doing quite well these days.

 

That's because they have gone back to their roots and are concentrating on what they know best: large reliable mainframe systems.

I have a lot of respect for S/390 running OS/390 and apps like CICS and DB/2.

 

Yall need an outsider like me here to shake things up. All this Toyota is the second coming stuff is great but you get so busy patting each other in the back you ignore a little reality. Where is the objectivity?

Depending on who you ask; Chevrolet sold more vehicles than Toyota in 2004. Ask someone else and depending how you count they will say Toyota. Either way it was close. Where it's interesting to a GM fan is when you say, how many did GM sell and how many did Toyota sell? (Keep in mind Toyota had it's best year ever and the numbers include Lexus and Scion) The numbers make Toyota look anemic compared to GM. Toyota, 2 million sales in 2004 and GM 7 million. That's a staggering 350% more sales. If I believed this rhetoric on this board I would think Toyota was outselling GM by 500%. Now maybe GM is just lucky or maybe 3.5 times more people are too dumb to buy a Toyota over a GM or maybe or maybe. GM is losing market share which I can’t dispute. They are losing money and the near future is not pretty. However, they still blow away Toyota for sales. Wouldn’t you think everyone would jump ship with all the company troubles and junk they make? Wait a minute, what does JD Powers say…in 2005 GM has more vehicles rated higher in initial quality than any other maker. How could this be? It must be someone buying votes I guess. A bright spot for Toyota and this forum though, the Prius was the top pick for mini sized vehicles. Well at least JD got one right huh?

I own a 1986 Suburban that my Dad bought new. It has 262k miles. The motor has never been opened up. It’s pulled trailers that weight three times as much as the Prius. It’s been used off road, it’s carried 8 people comfortably countless times. It’s had 20 sheets of plywood loaded in the back with the doors closed. It’s pulled stuck vehicles out of the mud. It held ALL my power tools during the hurricane. It’s passed nearly 10 gas stations without stopping for fuel during the last 19 years. (I had to slam it for something) So…which Toyota has done more or done it better than my Suburban over the last 19 years or even today when you factor in everything but fuel economy? Sort of a trick question because I don’t think even today’s biggest Toyota’s can’t haul 8’ plywood with the doors closed unless they rest on the drivers head. I do not know that to be fact.

Toyota makes a great product but if you look at data from the last 4-5 years you see GM closing the gap and they may have even passed Toyota for quality. Toyota is still gaining overall market share from the smart moves in the Hybrid arena as well as the perceived quality / reputation which is well deserved. Toyota has done it right for a long time, at least for 47 years that they have been in business.

I’ll quit being the fly in the ointment. I like the Prius and if this forum helps get more hybrids on the road then keep on with whatever yall want to say and I will just lurk from time to time.

 

Diesaldave,

I don't think Priuschat members are denying that GM makes really good vehicles, and you have one to prove it. But Toyota makes really good vehicles and I have one to prove it. (Actually, over the years I've averaged about 200,000 miles on 4 different Toyotas. All but one were going great when I sold them.)

And GM also makes bad vehicles. For the sake of argument, Toyota also makes bad vehicles, though my experience has been 100% exceptional.

I daresay though, the percent good versus bad for the 2 companies is very different.

And as for GM being bigger than Toyota and selling more cars. 25 years ago Toyota was a miniscule company compared to the size of GM. Now GM is only mildly larger. At this rate, GM's days of supremacy are numbered.

Toyota has billions of dollars in reserves and was chastised last year for not using those reserves to buy another company. Toyota defended themselves by saying that money was for cars, not investments. (Tho they are investing heavily in battery production and also in battery recycling.) Correspondingly, GM's credit rating was recently lowered to junk status.

Stating facts is not bashing. Indeed, I'm scared to death over what might happen if GM falters. I pray that they thrive. But their track record over the last 20 years has not been good, notwithstanding your wonderful Suburban.