Dealer Pricing - Negotiable?

I am not discrediting the leaf. It's not the perfect car ... that is all I am saying. It's totally subjective!

 

Its a tough sell, as I've said, people just "think" they need this unlimited range, and "freedom" to go anywhere, at anytime, with no planning, and, they feel they MUST have it. If you feel that way, thats fine, and EV is probably not for you. The reality is, we are far too mobile, and in the not so distant future, that's going to have to change, if we are to survive as a society, but, thats an entirely different side discussion

For me, just keeping my existing Prius, is the correct decision. Trading it in, for a marginally "better" Prius, because it has SOME EV range, is not good enough, for me.

I can buy a Leaf for less money, and use it for %90 of my driving, or perhaps all of it, time will tell.

I think owning a full EV, and a PHEV or a standard Prius is a great plan for most familys, there is room for both, and both of them have there uses.

 

Lol, I thought this thread was about dealer pricing being negotiable…

 

Yeah, we are pretty far off topic

back on topic: I would surmise: No, you're not going to have much luck with that.

 

No, it's about how similar the Chevy Volt and Prius PHEV sales meeting talking points are. Think I'll go wash the city grime off of my 6 month old, haven't used a drop of gas, traded in my Prius for a chock full of range anxiety Nissan Leaf. Ms. Whitmire, do give me a call when Toyota makes an Estima PHEV. Drove one while in Japan last week, too nice for us gaijin, I guess.

 

Yeah, I'm about to join you, waiting for my "RAQ" back from my Nissan dealer to get the Leaf ordered, then the long 3-4 month waiting begins. New England Leaf ordering opened up today, for those of you that care.

 

It's turned into a leaf blowing contest!

 

Sales Meeting? I haven't been to one in years.

I had an Estima here in 2001. I think they feel the car is underpowered.
Yes, I know you're being a smartass in regards to the range anxiety but with many Socal lifestyles, buying the LEAF would also require a 2nd car somewhere. Not many can do that... and especially singles. I have a good driveway and room. THree car garage and all that, but where would the average person put a 2nd car and why would they want to insure two cars? Pay for two cars?

If the LEAF fits, WEAR it!
Sadly, for me as a lot of my fellow SoCal Prius PHEV etc clients, Leaf isn't convenient.

 

Dianne,

I won't be posting to much more "distracting" information on the PHV Plug in threads, I accepted my RAQ for my 2012 Leaf today, delivery 3-4 months out. I am most likely one of the first in the Boston area to order, as the window just opened yesterday. FYI, the total price for the 2012 SL Leaf (the loaded one), will be $38,410 and that is with the $850 destination charge. $7,500 gets knocked off directly because I am leasing it, so the lease is 36 months @ $443 / month (15K miles/year), with $2599 due at delivery. The price is actually $30,910 because NMAC passes the Federal rebate directly to the consumer. So yes, it is similar to the $32,000 PiP - $2,500 Federal credit (total: $29,500), which you will have to pay and get back on your 2013 taxes, unless Toyota decides to do the same as Nissan with the credit.

Anyone need a good deal on a 2010 Model 5 Prius say the end of Jan 2012?

 

so let me get this straight, they are saying that the car will devalue nearly 50% over three years? wow.

 

The residual factor is .45

Residual value set to $17,284

When you lease, that's the part you are not paying for, so it doesn't matter.
When you drive a new car off the lot, it drops %20 then, these #'s should not surprise you.

I think most cars have similar #'s when leasing, even the Prius.
These are calculated guesses from the leasing company...

 

The residual value does "matter", because the higher it is the less depreciation you are paying for the lease. But it is the one factor that you cannot negotiate, so its beyond our control.

Word to the Wise....All other aspects of a lease are negotiable. Most folks fail to realize this fact and are getting taken. The price of the car is and should be negotiated. Also important is the money factor (interest rate). There is a direct relationship between money factor and a corresponding interest rate. The dealer usually DOES NOT set people up with the lowest money factor they really qualify for.
If a person sets foot in the dealership without having the lease formula in front of them, and know how to use it to calculate a lease payment, and know what money factors are available, they are not wise and will get taken.

Oh yeah, the so called Cap-Cost reduction, or down-payment, is an absolute waste of cash money. It's giving cash in return for nothing.
It does nothing but lower your Insurance Companys liability in the event of a total loss of the car. That's right, the downpayment is saving the insurance co money if the car gets totaled.
And the insurance companies love it.
If one cant afford the lease without cap cost reduction they shouldn't be leasing that car.

 

OK, I finally got up the nerve to talk to the local (SLO) Toyota dealership about pricing for the PIP. I say 'nerve' because unlike some people I know, I dread any type of bargaining. I spoke to their 'Internet Sales Manager' on the phone. When I asked, he very matter-of-factly stated it would go for MSRP + delivery charges (?). He used the term 'a limited production vehicle' as justification for the non-negotiable pricing. Trade-in for our Gen III would be assessed at the time of delivery of the PIP.

So there you have it.... I'm hoping, but not optimistic, that maybe one of the other dealerships,within a 100 mile radius or so, will come on board with the 'Certified Dealer' program... but not holding my breath.

 

Not a surprise. The key point to make when you get that response is this.

Toyota will send them an allocation of cars, just like any new release, that they can sell at MSRP if they wish. They own this allocation. (point them to Toyota's FAQ)

The difference with the ordering process is that they do not own the car to sell at MSRP. They don't get a car until we choose to deliver it to them. The number of preorders sent to them does not impact their allocation Toyota will send them.

So after you explain the process above to them and still get the same response, tell them good luck selling a car you don't have at MSRP and hang up. You won't get any where until they get trained.

 

One factor you are not getting is that the amount of the pre-orders is SO very slim, it will be over faster than you think. It may be quicker than even I predicted.

I guess you can trust me on that one, or you will have to see for yourself.

The online pre-order system for the PHEVs is such a small ratio of the available PHEV units for the USA, it isn't going to be a big deal to some salespeople ...

 

Rad radio, I am not that far from you. Take the train down!

 

A lease thru Toyota has certain fixed costs.
Let's iron this out right now, in case anyone wants to lease?

FIXED costs:

Bank Fee/lease fee ($650) this is fixed thru Toyota.

Doc Fee. Some stores charge 45 or 55. We don't charge a doc fee on a lease, but others might, and it's consistent. Charge 1, charge all!

Disposition fee. Toyota's disp. fee is $350 per car.

Rate: The rate is set by your own fico score. There's a "buy rate" which is what you qualify for based on your own FICO score thru Experian and the other two credit bureau scores used as a consideration. Rate CAN change based on several small factors: encore can figure into things to eliminate an otherwise required security deposit or dropping the lease rate by a tiny amount. Subvented rates don't qualify for encore lowering. You can even drop a rate pretty significantly by doing multiple security deposits rather than adding a cap reduction. Or, pre-paid lease. That drops a rate down a lot!

Residual: residual is a dollar amount set by Toyota and it's published very clearly to us based on the car's model/base dollar amount and then Toyota uses some formula to determine the value of the options. IN example: every single Prius II right now residualizes at $14,582. No matter what the factory items added are, such as bluetooth or mats or tint or front protection film... these may raise the MSRP up but they do not change the residual. The only things that can add to a residual are leather (400) or the Prius PLUS package (500) ... and this is true for all Toyota models. A III base will residual for x, a III with NAV will have a set residual and a Prius III with sunroof/NAV will have a set residual. It's not based on overall MSRP. That's old school stuff based on banks using residual books and percentages. Toyota leasing also permits a 15K a year lease with same method of set residuals. After that, on most models, you can go as high as 25K a year because from the 15K dollar amount of the residual to 25K, you drop the residual 10 cents a mile. Meaning, a $14,612 residual on a Prius II with 15K a year is what's happening now. Add 10,000 miles a year x 3 years = 30,000 extra miles x .10 a mile and that residual drops from 14,612 to 11,612.

The depreciation between the selling price and the residual, plus the bak fee of 650 divided by 36 months + adding the interest (lease rate calculation) is what sets a payment.

A high residual with a low selling price means a lower lease payment. It's just math.
The only things fluid, or not fixed in reality is the selling price!
If someone like me, a fleet director, sits at the desk and goes over a lease at a special rate (right now it's .00150 on all Prius for good credit, 720+) then the only thing left to talk about is selling pricing. The rest is based on your credit, and how many miles you want to drive.

The drive offs in CA are based on the license fees for the first year + the first payment in advance. Therefore, the drive offs are indeed based on your own lease deal because it depends on the car's payment.

I have been doing leasing since we had to figure these things out longhand and hand-write contracts!!! Over the years, it's gone from being a business related GREAT idea to a very common way for us regular folks to vbe driving cars and trucks at a far less expensive monthly payment or make a quick turn of a car after a few years.

If the terms sare right, and the rates are reasonable, one can make a great case for doing a lease over a purchase. For someone who turns cars frequently, a lease can make better sense just because you only pay sales tax on the payment, and not the entire car. On a $30,000 car in CA, we pay about $2600 in sales tax. The car's payment would be about $400 on average on lease, which is a $35 a month tax... so on average, if you keep a car for 3 years, you'd pay only $1200ish in tax vs the buying sales tax of $2600+. If you're definitely coming out of it in 3 years or less... it's something to consider. But, that really depends on the rest of the terms.

A Cap Cost reduction is simply cash down to reduce the dollar amount depreciated/divided 36 ways. It's kind of like a down payment reducing the amount you finance. It's that simple. On some of my leases, folks decide to pay the drive offs and that TFS 650 bank fee up front so it's not amortized into the lease terms.

 

Toyota hasn't taken any reservations yet, the reservation line isn't open. They have approximately 44,000 people on the pre registration list but who knows how many of those will actually place an order

 

...

 

Maybe I should get a PiP just to auction it off on eBay