Featured Dead: Chevy Bolt EV and Bolt EUV

More complete list in link.

Bob Wilson

 

I drove a Leaf after my Prime in 2019. Only problem was a dead 12V battery after a year, no other problems after that. I switched to a Mach-E a year ago and no problems so far. Just got a Bolt EUV this year. Should be as reliable now since they fixed older models with the battery recall.

 

lots of experience like that out there. only tesla has 10+ year track record

 

Tesla had a lot of problems for the first 1/2 of that time. They have a lot less QC issues now but more service/customer service issues.

 

i'm not touting them, just saying bev's don't have much of a reliability track record. that's fine for many people and not fine for others

 

Use this one since it comes from the horse's mouth:

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

I just noticed the Leaf doesn't qualify any more. Will have to update my original post.

 

Is that an ioniq?

 

EV car heaters, inverters, traction packs, on board chargers are new to the auto quality game ... but all the other stuff? Body panel gaps, suspension, insulation / quiet ride etc has varied over the decades. Japanese used to be #1 for body gap consistency for example - compared to the big 3. But as of late, not so much. Our chevy volt kicks extreme butt over our Model X panels for the same year (2019). It's an amorphic crap shoot.
That said, Audi (including EV's) seems to have the upper hand on a lot of the issues. Their high/low traction pack buffers are larger, making it more likely they won't have warranty issues, yet still do well on the drag CD issues, even with the non-usable battery weight.
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Yes, I'm not saying I'd throw out the idea of buying a used EV again completely. It's just that used doesn't make much sense right now. Maybe it will next year or in a few years.

The point about the warranty is that to me, a car with half the warranty left should be at least half the price. The cheapest 4-year-old Bolt (2019) with around 50,000 miles on it on Autotrader is just about $20,000. And it's over 1,700 miles away from me. There's a similar one within 200 miles (radius) that's going for about $23,000. Those are the cheapest I can find.

Mind you I drive 20,000 miles a year. A used Bolt with 50,000 miles on it will run out of warranty on the battery in 2 and a half years for me. This may not mean anything if the car has a good track record of lasting a long time, but it is something to keep in mind.

In comparison the Avalon was just out of waranty when I bought it. However, the Avalon was around $40,000 brand new but only cost me $15,000 at 50,000 miles and 5 years later after a single owner, and it's a Toyota.

I would totally go for a used EV that was the same size as the Avalon if it were $15,000, or even $20,000 since there would be fuel savings. But the Bolt is considerably smaller.

I am lower income, but the catch 22 is I probably wouldn't have half the tax liability of $4,000.

I was referring to best within the cars we were talking about.

Yes, EV's keep getting better. There are some that will be able to charge much faster. But to me it doesn't matter if I can't afford the car.

 

Many interesting points of view on this thread. Almost none of them are actually about the new Prius. Or the old Prius. Originally, the Prius was designed and made to minimize pollution. The Prius Chat web site was full of information about how the cars made a difference. It looks like most of the posters on this thread today have no concerns about protecting the environment. Many priuschat BEV enthusiasts are much more concerned about purchase price, subsidies and rebates than they are about how inefficient their car is. I find it telling that even with the PHEV running on gasoline 40% of the time the average Prius Prime would be equal to or better than the average BEV GHG contribution. The Prius also has a much lower standby energy drain because it's battery pack is much smaller. 1% per day of 80kWh is a lot more lost energy than 1% per day of ~10 kWh stored in the Prius Prime battery.

There is a good graph here that shows that only in Iceland do you get 0 GHG per KM in a BEV. But they have volcanoes that provide geothermal power..
IEA, Well-to-wheels greenhouse gas emissions for cars by powertrains, IEA, Paris Well-to-wheels greenhouse gas emissions for cars by powertrains – Charts – Data & Statistics - IEA, IEA. Licence: CC BY 4.0



In California, the energy mix during Sept of 2022 was primarily from Natural gas and out of state imports. Solar, wind and Nuclear combined fell to around 24%. Hydro only contributed 7% of the needed power. Notice that natural gas was burned all day long, not just the after dark that people want to believe.

Those figures come from: U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis

 

Maybe because it’s a bolt thread

 

In the news sub-forum with hybrid, EV, and alt-fuel also in the title.

 

That's possible, but it's in the Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News forum. Not the Discontinued GM cars forum.

 

Should be moved, but looking at the first posts, seems like something got merged

 

Is that why you think it's screwy?

 

Not sure what you are rattling on about here. The next generation prime is a very good and efficient vehicle. It just won't sell well compared to efficient bevs like the model 3/Y. Still from fueleconomy.gov

2023 Prius in california 188 g (CO2)/mile
2022 prius prime california 110 g/mile, US 150 g/mile
2023 tesla model Y california 70 g/mile, US average 110 g/mile (Bolt is the same)
The new prime should be lower than the existing prime, but we will find out next month. But no a prius prime will put out more ghg emissions than an efficient bev.

Your chart of wells to wheels also showed BEVs on the world power grid are more efficient in terms of ghg than phevs which are better than most hybrids. The US on average is lower than the world. California will soon remove all its nuclear as it should (nuclear is ok in many places but not the way california built it). Hydro is subject to climate change. California should build more ccgt natural gas to stabilize the grid, and this is much more efficient in a bev or phev than gasoline in a hybrid.

Now that we have gotten to more facts about bevs (especially those with batteries built in low emisions factories) it isn't about lower ghg, bevs and phevs win. The range and price are the limiting factors. An excellent long range plug in is the RAV4 prime which as a phev has excellent range but price is hurt by dealer gouging and lack of availability.

 

I thought it was about bolt not qualifying for tax credit, but the title is confusing since bolt is being cut by gm

 

Well, the Bolt still qualifies for the full tax credit.