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Dashboard summary: December 2015

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Jan 6, 2016.

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  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    lots of explorers and suburbans in our near future.
     
    #21 bisco, Jan 19, 2016
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In about three weeks, we'll have the first combined 2015 clearance sales and new 2016 sales for January. In three months, we'll see how well the 2016 is going to look long term.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #22 bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2016
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    just as iran starts selling oil.
     
    #23 bisco, Jan 19, 2016
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    rav4, cr-v, escape, rogue, Cherokee, equanox, and explorer
    led december SUV/crossover sales in that order. The cute utes are selling really well versus cars. Explorer is the best selling midsize, but cr-v beat it by 94K units in 2015. Those were the best sellers of the catagories.
     
    #24 austingreen, Jan 19, 2016
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    crv's are like mosquito's, but less annoying.
     
    #25 bisco, Jan 19, 2016
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Making a silk purse out of this news, at last we may see more intelligent, new Prius owners. I'm kinda of tired of some of the dummies.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #26 bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2016
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have been thinking about adult ed.:oops:
     
    #27 bisco, Jan 19, 2016
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sometimes it is best to remain mute and suspected of being a dummy than to open one's mouth and removing all doubt. <GRINS>

    Still anyone clever enough to get a PIP ranks right up there in my book with @john1701a.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #28 bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2016
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thanks, i wish. still, i like to think of myself as a progressive conservator.:)
     
    #29 bisco, Jan 19, 2016
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The UK consumer magazine "Which?" reports the Jeep Grand Cherokee emits 2.7 g/km or 15 times the the EU standard for NOx.

    I wonder if our regulators are looking at that one?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #30 bwilson4web, Jan 20, 2016
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I'm assuming you mean this?
    Which? study reveals how some diesel cars emit up to 15 times the safe amount | Daily Mail Online
    It could be the European version has different emissions controls. That study had 2011 cherokee, a diesel was not introduced to america on that model until 2014.

    I'm not saying fiat chrysler may not be cheating like vw, but it is a sure thing that emissions controls are different on the US model than a 2011 UK model, that chyrsler did not sell in the US. It is well known that the european lab test is not anywhere close to real world testing that a lab may be doing.
     
    #31 austingreen, Jan 20, 2016
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I checked the EPA test car, data list for the Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel:

    Test Category THC (g/mi) CO (g/mi) CO2 (g/mi) NOx (g/mi) PM (g/mi) CH4 (g/mi)
    1 FTP diesel 0.039291 0.065104 359.7397 0.035742 0.000408 0.031925
    2 FTP gas 0.024691 0.252293 340.35304 0.001912 0.004591
    3
    4 HWY diesel 0.001796 0.004943 238.769 0.005045 0.000086
    5 HWY gas 0.01167 0.023244 219.886 0.002055

    Bob Wilson
     
    #32 bwilson4web, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Cool, that probably is more accurate for us emissions. It is much higher in NOx than gasoline, but no where near as high as the models shipped to england in 2011.

    That methane looks wrong though, would think diesel would be much lower on methane than gasoline, as the fuel is much lower.
    VW Diesel NOx Problem: So Tough Angela Merkel Complained About It (In 2010)
     
    #33 austingreen, Jan 20, 2016
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Which? article came up in the VW cheating thread in the diesel section.

    The EU test isn't reflective of how the cars are driven out on their roads. So a car can pass the test without doing anything illegal, and still emit high levels of NOx, or CO in the case of petrol cars, in the real world. A Lexus hybrid exceeded the CO limit by 4X.
     
    #34 Trollbait, Jan 20, 2016
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    By happy accident, the EPA has updated the 'Test Vehicle Database' with the 2016 Prius numbers:

    Vehicle Test MPG
    1 16-ZV1H FTP 78
    2 16-ZV2H FTP (cold) 56.3
    3 16-ZV3H FTP 77.3
    4 10-ZW1H FTP 72.4
    5
    6 16-ZV1H HWY 71.2
    7 16-ZV2H HWY
    8 16-ZV3H HWY 76.1
    9 10-ZW1H HWY 70.2
    10
    11 16-ZV1H SC03
    12 16-ZV2H SC03 58.8
    13 16-ZV3H SC03 52.3
    14
    15 16-ZV1H US06 48.6
    16 16-ZV2H US06
    17 16-ZV3H US06 48.6

    Source: Test Car List Data Files | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA

    I don't know why all tests were not run on all three models but here they are. I also don't know which ones correspond to the different 2016 models.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #35 bwilson4web, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is also missing the cold temp test.

    Which model is which?
     
    #36 Trollbait, Jan 20, 2016
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I also found the roll-down coefficients:
    Vehicle Test A (lbf) B (lbf/mph) C (lbf/mph**2)
    1 16-ZV1H FTP 18.272 0.29545 0.013793
    2 10-ZW1H FTP 18.501 0.02235 0.01811
    3
    4 16-ZV1H FTP (cold) 20.302 0.32827 0.015326
    5 10-ZW1H FTP (cold) 20.234 0.01993 0.01874

    I appreciate the improved aerodynamic coefficient, C, but and bothered by the linear drag coefficient, B, that has gone up so much. The static coefficient, A, should correspond to the electrical overhead and this is the right direction. For those who 'see math' the B and C coefficient values are 'hummmm?'

    Bob Wilson
     
    #37 bwilson4web, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Good point AG, but I am even stronger now on bad year for PHEV. The way the CA HOV works, the buyers have to keep their cars to keep the HOV stickers, so I presume that is a dis-incentive for HOV sticker holders to sell their car and get a new PHEV. They instead need to hold onto to current PHEV or trade up to BEV.

    I really think CA needs to shift to Virginia-type system (HOV plates) so the owners can trade in their PHEV for another PHEV and still keep HOV. Therefore for CA to keep HOV incentive as a selling pressure for plug-ins, they really need to extend the benefit and encourage trade-in for new PHEV.

    That's what we have in Virginia some folks got the best HOV plates thru July 2006, and now no one else can get it, but those orig owners have to keep buying new hybrids to keep their HOV plates. A retention bonus as it were!
     
    #38 wjtracy, Jan 20, 2016
  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Oldest phevs are only 5 years old, yes there is a disincentive to trade those in on a phev. Unless its a prius phv on something like a volt or an i3-rex with all those extra electric miles.

    California like georgia incentivises bevs over phevs, but those incentives are rather large in you are not wealthy, $10,000 + HOV. CARB has decided they don't like PHEVs. So what. The PHEVs will sell in other states.
    I don't really like the HOV incentive, so I will have to disagree here as well. Carb DOESN'T want to grandfather as you are suggesting, they want new sales. If plug-ins are traded in, then they are likely to get sold out of state on the used market in states where new incentives are lower. Texas gets a lot of used bevs from california :)

    Sure if you want to reward early adopters and grandfather, but net number of plug-ins aren't helped by that system.

    Texas wants to incentive and get people "hooked" on plug-in driving, then you need less incentives in the future. Different approaches.

    I think california won't sell as many phevs as in 2014, but it will sell a lot more bevs. Prius phv, the second best selling phev in 2014 is gone. The volt, i3-rex, fusion and c-max energi, ioniq phev, outlander phev, a3 phev, etc should though sell well in states like colorado, texas, and florida which in my forecast will make it a better year for nationwide phev sales than last year. 2015 was a bad selling year. Its a fairly easy goal. Less than 50,000 phev were sold last year.
     
    #39 austingreen, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I don't like HOV incentives either. I suggest however CA HOV is single handedly why most plug-ins are selling. If true, it is a potential crisis to not have CA HOV incentives. How about like you only get 3-years HOV. So any new buyer can get in. Old buyers have to re-buy or lease to get back in.
     
    #40 wjtracy, Jan 20, 2016
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