Custom Enginer PHEV (8kWh)

Thanks for the update! Congrats on your new high score! :rockon:
I may have missed it, but if not, can you elaborate a little on which ScanGuage feedback you are monitoring and how you are using it to improve your results? Thx.

 

I think thats probably a good plan. Use the two chargers to get through the bulk/fast charge phase, then shut one off and let the other do its funny little dance until charge is full. It would be great if there was a way to rig one of the chargers to turn off automatically at the end of the bulk phase, but I guess that could still be problematic as you wouldn't be sure that charger would hit the end of bulk first.

 

I may have mentioned this before, but IMHO the improvement in performance of a PHEV should really be measured as reduction in fuel consumption rather than improvement in MPG. You are generally going to drive a given distance (like your commute) and what you are striving to do is reduce the amount of gasoline burned to make that trip. So it seems like the amount of gas saved is the relevant measure. As has been mentioned in numerous threads on PC most of the world measures fuel economy this way, in units like litres/100km rather than km/litre

For the most recent example: 121 vs. 72.3MPG is a 67.3% improvement in MPGs, but the amount of fuel burned is reduced by (1/72.3 - 1/121)/(1/72.3) = 40.2%. Still a great result, but more indicative of your actual fuel savings.

Rob

 

Math is fun... if you only have your % delta, a quicker calc is [(1+ 0.673) ** (-1) ] - 1 = -0.402 or 40.2 % reduction.

 

I guess some of the CAN messages changed from 2004 to 2005. I can't figure why you don't see "gps" or "cdl" or "ccl". All of those should work. The only thing I haven't been able to put on XGauge is MG1 rpm.

But, Can-View is infinitely more verbose and for 2004, I think it displays right on the MFD :rockon:. Here's the parameter list of what it's programmed to monitor:

http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/disppars.html

11011011

 

For a 2005 Prius, no draw backs. The information can be displayed
in the MFD directly with CAN-view 3+. CAN-view is the equipment with more displayed information from the CAN through the OBDII for a Hybrid vehicle.
I own a 2004 and choose to have Ver 4+ with an external touch screen monitor and I installed it "in" the dashboard, behind the steering wheel.

 

Now THAT is neat ! Where did the panel come from ? 2010 available ?

 

It is a handcrafted piece with a lot of patience and dedication.

 

I don't think CanView has been ported to 2010 Gen III yet... sorry.

11011011

 

I have neither, so can only comment on what I've read. CAN View is a product that was specifically developed to monitor the internal goings on inside the Prius. Norm was a pretty early pioneer in deciphering the Prius CAN data, and it seems like there are still things he has figured out that no one else really has. It allows you to monitor a lot more parameters than the Scan Gauge, and to see a lot more of these all at once and in different formats. As someone mentioned the V3+ for the '04-'05 displays data right on the MFD and gets feedback from the touchscreen. It acts like another "page" just like the consumption, energy, or HVAC screens, and still lets you use the screen for all its intended purposes. The display is fairly customizable and has multiple pages that you can setup. The graphics are pretty 1980s, as this is all running on a micro-controller not a full blown PC, which is probably just as well from a robustness/stability standpoint.

In addition to displaying CAN parameters, the CAN-View has a number of on-board relays that can be configured to open or close based on the values of various CAN parameters. This controller was developed independently, but became the primary controller for the Cal-Cars open source project until they moved on to their own CAN spoofing controller. The CAN-View is a listening only device, it does not put any data out on the CAN bus. The website is a little tricky to navigate, but there is a lot of good info hiding in there

CAN-view index

I'd say its only real downside is cost, for those who don't have a PHEV conversion and just want a little more visibility into whats going on inside a Scan Gauge is probably almost as effective for less money. On '06 and up cars you also need to mount an external touch screen. For those that want to see in more depth what their car is up to, or be able to monitor more parameters at once, or be able to trigger relays based on CAN data it seems like the CAN-View gives you a lot of extra functionality for the extra money.

Rob

 

No question CanView rocks, I think their product is top notch. For those on a budget, here's an opensource CanScan port. I know that Ken also has a Can Product that may still be in "Beta Test Freeware" phase. I think all of these require a CAN232 or CANUSB fob which cost $100+. The ScanGauge only gives you 4 gauges, but here's a list of [post="950412"]Prius 2007 Gen II Specific[/post] data it can report. It can also do most all the Standard ODBII stuff too.

There are options, but they all start around $110 and move up from there.

11011011

 

MIL... did you get a DTC?
what happend is that your prius is trying to keep the SOC around 60% max 75%
because it noticed 92% its using the ICE to get rid of the energy....

but i guess you already know this.

 

I guess that you experiment only once..............be careful.

 

that is indeed a nice setup

some hard work went into making that i bet.

 

Thanks for all the great info you are providing on the Enginer System. It is a great service to the PHEV community.

I think your decision not charge the OEM pack is correct, at least for now. I would like to emphasize for all PHEV drivers who are charging their OEM hv battery packs (as the Enginer system can do, both while driving and while in Park) to be especially careful regarding battery temperatures, including what can happen after the car is shut down. As you may be aware, there have been several Prius hv battery failures in the PHEV community over the years as people have attempted to charge without monitoring the temperatures properly.


Based on having charged my 3 Prius NiMh packs several hundred times (see One Year of Driving Our BMS+ Plug-In Prius), it looks to me like your NiMh pack may have reached sufficiently high temperatures to have been rapidly self-discharging overnight (although 205v seems a long way down). It is unlikely that any damage has occurred, but by driving in EV and PHEV modes before charging--especially if combined with high ambient temps--it is possible that your OEM NiMh pack may have been warmer than desirable for starting a charge. Also, 238v is getting right up near the top of the range.

Does your instrumentation allow you to monitor your Prius battery pack temperature before, during, and after charging? As you know, the Prius pack is a relatively large mass of NiMh in a very tightly enclosed space, with very little surface area for releasing heat unless it has a strong fan-forced circulation. ANY charging rate (from a few hundred milliamps up to several 10's of amps) that either starts with the battery at a high temperature or goes on long enough will eventually result in increasing temperatures. As I understand it, this can lead to a high rate of self discharge as the oxygen evolved at positive electrode diffuses to the negative electrode and combines with the hydrogen stored there, producing more heat and intensifying the reaction. The voltage level can fall dramatically it the temperatures stay high for many hours.

Without knowing the accuracy of your SOC, voltage, and temperature data, it is not possible to be sure that this is what has occurred. Even a simple digital thermometer probe slipped in through one of the holes in the top of the sheet metal Prius battery case will tell you a great deal (not as good as a probe placed into one of the thermal wells built into the Prius modules, but that requires opening up the main case...)

When the car is in ready mode, the battery ecu will report temperatures from its 3 probes, and these messages are visible on the CAN bus (and on CAN-View). Based on these temps, the Toyota fan will run at low (96f), medium (107f) or high (122f), and on full there is a tremendous airflow. But when the car is shut down, no cooling is available without some sort of modification.

A lot more information about charging the Prius NiMh packs can be found on various pages on Norm's site (hybridinterfaces.ca). By the way, I think the CAN-View system for monitoring any PHEV conversion is worth every penny and then some. I offers an astounding amount of data, including a RAW page that lists all of the CAN bus traffic!

Personally, I prefer not to charge if any of my NiMh packs are over 90f--I just wait till late at night or very early morning when the air in the garage has cooled enough, and then run my battery fans for a while before charging. Living in a mild climate makes this easy. I also find that it is preferable not to charge past 232v or so the night before (Panasonic states that their prismatic cells do not self-discharge when kept below 70% SOC), and instead top up to full (236v to 238v) right before discharging by starting to drive in EV mode, which obviously prevents any self-discharge.

Thanks again for the wealth of innovations and data you have made available.

NW BMS+ Driver