Since our previous exchange, 26 more car models (19 of them only for the Model Year 2024 editions, not their 2023 versions) have been added to the IIHS 2023 Top Safety Pick+ list. But not yet any more Teslas.
Many months since those questions were brought up, that quarterly Tesla Vehicle Safety Report remains un-updated. That is 3 quarterly updates missed. Now there is more. This past Sunday, WaPo: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it’s not intended — with deadly consequences At least eight fatal or serious Tesla crashes occurred on roads where Autopilot should not have been enabled in the first place, a Post analysis finds, in spite of federal officials calling for restrictions Why Tesla Autopilot shouldn’t be used in as many places as you think The EV maker allows drivers to engage the technology on roads far from the ‘controlled-access highways’ for which it was designed Tuesday, NHTSA recall notice: Subject: Autopilot Controls Insufficient to Prevent Misuse Today, CNN: Tesla recalls nearly all 2 million of its vehicles on US roads "New York CNN — Tesla is recalling nearly all 2 million of its cars on US roads to limit the use of its Autopilot feature following a two-year probe by US safety regulators of roughly 1,000 crashes in which the feature was engaged. ... The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the Autopilot system can give drivers a false sense of security and be easily misused in certain dangerous situations when a Tesla’s technology may be unable to safely navigate the road. The over-the-air software update will give Tesla drivers more warnings when they are not paying attention to the road while the Autopilot’s “Autosteer” function is turned on. Those notifications will remind drivers to keep their hands on the wheel and pay attention to the road, according to a statement from NHTSA After the recall, Teslas with Autosteer turned on will more routinely check on the driver’s attention level – and may disengage the feature – when the software determines the driver isn’t paying attention, when the car is approaching traffic controls, or when it’s off the highway when Autosteer alone isn’t sufficient to drive the car. The recall was disclosed in a letter to Tesla posted by NHTSA, which said that Tesla had agreed to the software update starting on Tuesday that will limit the use of the Autosteer feature if a driver repeatedly fails to demonstrate he or she is ready to resume control of the car while the feature is on."
Source: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF Out of 2,031,220 Teslas from October 5, 2012 to today : Shocking! Add the EV fires, two. You know, some people should not buy a Tesla that are in such short supply, especially at Christmas. Hopefully the FUD will scare most of them off. For my 2019 Model 3: $2.50/100 miles, not including ~15% free miles where I shop, and eat. Free breakfast and charging at motels on trips. Autopilot paid for itself the second month, saving family and car. Self maintenance with unique puzzles. Bob Wilson ps. Inventory Clearance! Sale! Sale! Sale! Ends in 18 days
Plenty of other vehicles have been recalled for specific defects that caused fewer or even zero deaths. E.g. most of the the recalls on my current and past vehicles.
The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) has made the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data available. So I used count of accidents by vendor to find out what percentage they are involved in 2021 fatal accidents: Code: percent make_cnt make_name 12.85% 7879 Ford 12.26% 7517 Chevrolet 8.64% 5297 Toyota 7.53% 4616 Honda 5.34% 3275 Nissan 4.01% 2459 Dodge 3.81% 2339 Harley Davidson 2.88% 1769 Jeep 2.84% 1744 GMC 2.58% 1583 Freightliner 2.55% 1564 Hyundai . . . 0.12% 75 Western Star 0.11% 70 Tesla 0.11% 66 Land Rover Remember, these are a mix of all vehicles in the fatal accident. Some are single car, many are two car, and others multi-car when one crashes into multiple vehicles. Bob Wilson
Did the report (any report?) actually say the use of Autopilot was the cause or just in use at the time? Mike
I would think a useful metric would be the total number of maker x's vehicles on the road compared to the accidents brand x cars are involved in. Interesting IIHS doesn't include Tesla in their figures.
The data would still be stacked in favor of Tesla. All of their vehicles have at least Collision Avoidance System. But, should they be penalized for that? I don't think so.
You are either confused, or or throwing up FUD yourself. This is about AP, not Tesla. AP is not Tesla, and Tesla is not AP. (AP is a sub-set of Tesla, but that doesn't make them the same thing.) Remember that several of the listed victims were not in an AP-equipped car, but instead were struck by drivers abusing AP by operating it in places that it was not intended for, and mentally disengaged themselves from driving. One of the victims was even a student stepping off a school bus. AP had resources at hand to geo-fence to just the intended locations, but did not do so. AP had the ability to detect driver disengagement, but was not adequately enforcing it. This is a defect. Many other vehicles have been recalled for defects with lower casualty counts, or even no casualties (yet). Any aviator should understand the hows and whys. What is needed is for the Tesla fan-bois to stop excusing this misbehavior, and start scaring AP-owning drivers into using AP properly, as it was intended to be used. Or take responsibility for vehicular homicide.
Just the raw numbers of fatal accidents by manufacturer. Not trying to do anything sophisticated but having quality, raw observations, we can ask questions like: How many fatal accidents per "x" miles by make and model? Which make and models have the worst and best "pedestrian fatality" rate? First get quality data and then figure out how to answer the questions. Bob Wilson
or married. Sad to say, widower after 43 years but I remember her. <rim shot> Addressing your concerns, I am a fan of reasoning that starts with measurable facts and data. Then come up with a testable hypothesis and see what insights it gives us. Bob Wilson
Coming from an industry were statistical data builds up very slowly, I'm more accustomed to doing careful detailed failure analyses on even 'samples of one', then taking prompt action or intervention based on those findings. Maybe this was partly a spillover from working very near (even though not in) a large aerospace industry, where sample units are few but failures too often spill blood. Where design defects discovered in specific subsystems are not given a free pass just because the complete vehicle has a better track record than some competing vehicles. Fixing even these defects helps raise the safety and performance bars.
