Crazy Volt incentives makes me want to trade

Set your graph to average market price at retail and you will see the effect in all it's glory.

 

That assumes all else is the same. Fortunately, there's a new market element at play: Plug-In Hybrids

They'll help push regular hybrids deeper into the mainstream.

 

Until excess clean electricity is widely available on the grid, plug-ins are not a market attraction. They add cost but do not improve efficiency or reduce pollution or carbon.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, the third of the three plots was average market retail price?

Do you mean retail price for vehicles bought? Like this:


I don't see that supporting your point either. Prices paid for either cars or for gas 2009 were on average lower than 2008 but hybrid take rate was higher. Car prices paid in 2010 where higher than in 2007, and gas was cheep in 2010 than 2007, but the take rate was higher in 2007. Correlation of either seems pretty weak (maybe even negative?)

 

Sorry, broken links. You might have to correct for inflation along the way.

 

Link fixed..

Inflation from 2008 to 2009 was slightly negative (.996) and 2007 to 2010 was only a cumulative 1.05 cumulative. Does not change either comparison. In fact it makes the conclusion that its not strongly correlated even less likely as the 2007 to 2010 degrade in gas prices made it, relatively lower.

 

Regular hybrids will benefit regardless of plug-in sales. Even just a small number of them is a huge endorsement for motors & batteries.

 

This assumes, like many anti-hybrid statements I've seen, that hybrid technology STAYS the same (as well as all the technology underlying it like motors, batteries, and yes the ICE). It seems to me the "back to the future" of using turbo (I owned a '78 Buick Regal Turbo) is a false sense of security. Not exactly the "silver bullet" it's made out to be: Consumer Reports finds small turbo engines don't deliver on fuel economy claims

iPad ? HD

 

Yes, now I see the graph you posted, but it is not relevant to my point.

I do not have it at hand, but I am pretty sure that real fuel prices at the pump correlate quite well with average retail cost of Prius. Unfortunately the price increases for fuel have not been long lasting enough, and production constraints have conspired in preventing durable increases in marketshare.

The one time GM said something I agree with: a floor to price of petrol is required to shift American purchase habits to fuel economical cars.

 

But EV does improve the quality of the drive and the fun factor.. and the choice of what fuel to use.
Not every one is attracted to reducing pollution or carbon, in fact studies have show people will pay extra to AVOID things that are "green", see When it comes to the environment, many conservatives don’t like conserving | Ars Technica (I think there is a PC thread but a quick search did not find it)

Oh. I see what you are saying.. toyota dealers see higher gas prices as a way to gouge the buyers and jack up the price of the Prius. I can believe that, which could actually account for the potential negative correlation (I would need to get better data to formally do the actual correlation) since when prices go up, if the prius price goes up more, even if the TCO is better, people may discount the future gas price enough to decide to go with a regular car instead.

 

Rest assured, neither Bob Wilson or I am anti-hybrid. In fact I think a little reading would convince you of just the opposite.

Turbo as a fuel saving tech is fine; drivers may or may not take advantage of it. Rather similar to regen.

 

That's what I thought when I purchased the turbo 231 Buick V6 instead of the huge V8. I would have the gas mileage of the, at the time, the renowned Buick 231 but have the power when I needed it. Then I let my father borrow it......

iPad ? HD

 

Perhaps, you got your Prius in 2005. For my 2006, I got back $3,150 tax credit.

 

In my 2001, 2004, and 2010 I've gotten 46 - 55 mpg. In my PIP I'm getting well over 100 MPGe. EV drive is more efficient.

Mike

 

Fact is, be thankful that the Cruze is a money maker for GM. If it were not, how much of an impact would that have on continued corporate support for the Volt?

On the mentioning of the 3% market share for hybrid sales: without the Prius, the % of sales wouldn't even register a blip on the radar screen.

Something to think about.


DBcassidy

More likely, GM will be forced to build a higher quality car due to increased competition and a crowded market place.


DBCassidy

Yes, CARB has a heavy national influence. CAFE is also on a national basis, however that number can be played with. Have a couple of fuel sipping cars in your product, offsets the gas guzzling pickup trucks. The trucks are a profit machine for the manufacturers.

DBCassidy

It will be interesting to see how this buying pattern performs with the public.

DBCassidy

 

Yep. Actually November of 2004. Thanks that explains it. I did get a $2500 tax credit from NYS so that helped. Odd I got more "George's" back from 2 George's who were also both Republicans than I got back from the Democrats in power now. Irony runs rampant in politics!

 

You can say that again. Autotrader has 293 USED and 7,808 NEW listed. Cars has 259 USED and 9,294 NEW listed. That's roughly a 5-month inventory of new and a reason for concern as used leases begin to expire.

Volt enthusiasts tell us to continue to be patient, wait for the next generation... which should be offer system improvements and much lower cost. Doesn't that tell us that new sales will be flat in the meantime and resale values will later plummet?

It's quite obvious that GM needs to diversify. The thought that power & speed would stimulate strong sales clearly didn't work. Those traits didn't appeal to the mainstream enough to justify the purchase. We hear from countless scores all saying price must be lower. The best-case scenario has been stated as $10,000 less. Taking into account the $7,500 tax-credit won't be available then, that isn't promising. Knowing history, expecting best-case isn't realistic. Also, let's not forget the climbing price of gas and the upcoming efficiency & emissions regulations.

As automakers add more hybrid & plug-in choices and pressure from traditional continues to grow, what should we expect?

 

Yeah, me too. I got $2,500 from Obama for my PiP while $3,150 from Bush.

PiP would use 1,130 gallons less than Gen2 Prius (29 EV ratio per EPA).

Volt would use 1,800 gallons less (64% EV).

Yet, the Obama incentive is 3x the difference because it is based on the battery size rather than efficiency.

The current incentive is crazy already. If GM export it and sell Volt with the current incentive, I think they could be charged with dumping.

 

If they had truly followed Toyota's efforts to diversify as Toyota did with the HSD, they would have had the E-Flex system in at least 3 other models by now. Along the commensurate addition of economies of scale.

 

This would be a good idea, if they go through with it.
GM Exec Confirms 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Plug-In Hybrid Model