Crazy Volt incentives makes me want to trade

thanks man, that one had me confused!

 

Two-Mode followed the same path. It faded away at the 2.5 year mark, when sales fell far below expectations and there was no clear next step. The technology did actually work. But it was complicated, expensive, and wasn't as efficient as hoped. It ended up being abandoned.

Being told things are fine and we only need to be patient is allowing that history to repeat. Rather than giving GM a kick in the right direction so it stands a chance of meeting ordinary consumer needs, there's an effort to prevent conclusions from ever being drawn in discussions.

Wanting success (profitable high-volume sales) means being willing to adjust. Not making an effort to try to align with market priorities is a red flag. Some simply didn't care. They preferred the gamble on hope. Standing firm with the range & horsepower regardless of cost was a dead giveaway of trouble to come.

Now, sales are a struggle and there's no alternative available.

 

For the retiree, I felt sorry for them, if they are smart they should have taken all their pension out and put it into an IRA when they retired. I did this myself and I still don't trust my company which still has over $100B of revenue per year.
For those who lost the car warranties, it is very unfortunate because GM is not the first one.

 

what will gm do if republicans get elected in '16 and all the incentives go away?

 

Build a higher quality car?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong--The two-mode hasn't been abandoned. You can still buy Silverado/Cheyenne Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade in two-mode hybrid versions.

Thanks to our goofy way of measuring consumption (miles per gallon vs. gallons per mile) the EPA numbers don't look sexy (21/21, IIRC) but in terms of gasoline saved per year they're awesome.

You're right that they're expensive though.

 

You keep throwing unsubstantiated FUD, I guess that is your reaction to fear. Can you please stick to facts and real data instead spouting views of your made up fantasy world.

Yes GM's Two-mode was an engineering mild success, by far the most efficient hybrid for an SUV/Truck with towing needs. However it added noise in the cab and while it was a 20% improvement in fuel economy by the time it came out it other techniques (ecoboost, VVT, etc) combined with smaller mroe areo awd wagons with modet towing were in similar MPG range and so it was only medium weight towing (2000-5000lb) where it played a major role. More significantly, GM choose to sell it only in the premium packages (Silverado starting at 41K) and with a such a premium that it was not cost effective. Since it was not cost effective and did not improve the ride or quality-- it was effectively being sold on its "green" credit alone. GM gambled that people towing their boats and RVs would want to go green, but if you really wanted to be green it was better not to buy a new truck/SUV, but a new smaller fuel efficient car (maybe even a prius) and use an old truck/SUV. Also for many, studies have shown there many who would pay extra to NOT BE GREEN, and like flaunting their that (see this threadhttp://priuschat.com/threads/when-it-comes-to-the-environment-many-conservatives-don%E2%80%99t-like-conserving.126057/#post-1796022), and many of those "conservatives" are in more rural areas and buy trucks not cars.


GM's Two-mode was available in 4 models which sold an average of 48 vehichles per model per month in 2011 year, and it that dropped to 42 sales per model per month in 2012. The total sales across all 4 models for all of 2012 was 2033.


So the two-mode sales were not even in the same league as the Volt, by nearly a factor of 10! In a good month, the Volt sold more than all 4 two-mode hybrids put together for the whole year of 2012. No one is saying we should wait for that same history, as its not the same -- the history is being compared to the PriusHV launch.. And in terms of sales being too low risking canceling the program The Volt is selling better than the Venerable corvette:
http://priuschat.com/photos/volt-corvette-png.10594/standalone[img]

And GM needs something for CARB states, and while the Volt and SparkEV are going to be sold widely, they are also part of the GM CARB compliane play. Just like the Rav4EV, company will do a lot to keep in the Cali market and avoid fines of 5K per car.

Funny how you want to talk about sales, but did not answer about your claim about C and V not eating into Prius sales for which Jan-April are are down 20% over 2012 or 2011. What's up with that? What's up with Plug in Prius sales?They are the ones that are falling to below sustainable levels.

 

The dream of it becoming mainstream has been abandoned. A single brief production run will create enough inventory to supply the entire country for a year. Last month's sales confirm the extreme lack of demand...

13 = Silverado
32 = Tahoe
37 = Yukon
47 = Escalade

And yes, our measure of efficiency leaves much to be desired. Most of the rest of the world looks at how much fuel it takes to travel a specific distance. That's far more appropriate than arbitrarily comparing to some vehicle and claiming fuel was saved.

 

Two mode is till avaible this year, but the next round will not likely have them. (I don't recall an official GM statement to that fact, but they have not been officially talked about as beng included despite official statements about the 2014 vehicles. So everyone presumes they are dead for trucks.

GM dropping hybrid powertrains in pickup trucks

As I suggested, other design changes should allow comprable MPG as the hybrids without all the added complexity/cost or "hyrbid labeling which might actually hurt its sales. Less clear for SUVs where the Caddi has been rumored to possible keep it).
New Cadillac Escalade Coming in 2014, Will Retain Body-On-Frame Construction - Truck Trend News
Which makes some sense since Caddi buyers are less price sensitive and may be willing to pay for the hybrid (and not turned off s much).

 

Seems like gm has added smoke and mirrors to their vision. A alternative would be: find out what your customers want in a vehicle. It may be too late for that, with sales struggling.

What is gm asks for another bailout in the future?

Would we, the taxpayers, stand for this, again?

DBCassidy

 

Your're not happy - get a Leaf and be happy.

DBCassidy

 

That, will be the acid test for gm. Republicans will expect gm to stand on their own corporate feet, making a profits and product that are in demand.

DBCassidy

 

As for Volt, it won't be abandoned either. What has been is the "game changer" motto. Volt supporters commonly argue "failure" and "cancel" to distract from the goal of this generation becoming a mainstream vehicle. They'll bring up Prius as a change of focus and keep conclusions from being drawn. The purpose is to prevent the pattern from being recognized.

Reality is, Volt enthusiasts are going to be disappointed with the next generation. GM will come to terms with what is actually needed and transform accordingly. The required balance will finally happen. If it doesn't, Volt will be one of those vehicles people admire, but rarely ever actually buy.

5,000 sales per month is quite a challenge... and only the minimum criteria. To have a vehicle become a source for business-sustaining profit, quite a few more must be purchased. Like Two-Mode, we now see the current approach is not capable of achieving that. Sales at the 2.5 years mark make that overwhelmingly clear.

 

GM has to meet CAFE standards that the Feds dictate to them, so they have to make vehicles that don't sell to bring the standard up. The government giveth and the government taketh away.

 

They don't need to. The plug is just an upgrade option. The choice of a larger battery-pack & charger has nothing to do with the rest of the vehicle. It benefits from economies-of-scale. That flexibility sets it apart from the one-size-fits-all approach.

And keep in mind, the reason you were put on ignore is that posts your included personal insults rather than just sticking to facts.

 

CAFE is a California initiative. Volts seem to be selling in California, especially with the HOV sticker.

correction .. I confused CAFE with CARB, my bad.

 

Your are mixing things up a bit, CARB is California Air Resource Board.
CAFE is the national "Corporate Average Fuel Economey" enacted by conress back in 1975 and revised since then.

CAFE is definitely influenced by Cali, but its national.

 

Started a low carb diet last week ... trying to avoid the café.