Craving to trade in my PIP for a Tesla Model S

BTW, even as a gasser (at least the v6), the RAV4 is an awesome machine. The RAV4 is like the Doctor's Tardis. It might look little on the outside, but it's huge in the inside. Besides hauling a$$, it can haul a lot of stuff as well. I started a thread about it on the RAV4 forums many moons ago, because so many other people had the same experience (from dishwashers to 3 yards of mulch):

List the big items you have hauled with your RAV4 - Toyota RAV4 Forums : RAV4World.com

If they sold them in NY, I would be getting a RAV4 EV right away, it's Toyota's best kept secret.

If you have the financial means, you owe it to every EV fan NOT living in CA to check out that car, and take it for a spin

 

It actually is even better. As you stated, to paraphrase, it is used to stiffen the chassis, improving the handling. It also serves to lower the center of gravity, again improving the handling. It also quiets the road noise (a 4 inch block across the bottom of the car deadens noise nicely). And of course, with no battery pack invading the passenger/cargo compartment, ICE, or ICE support (exhaust, etc) there is a huge amount of storage for those longer trips

 

The drawback is it still uses the body style and interior (mostly) from the 2006+ model which is VERY dated. The new RAV4 body style is out now and looks much better. So while you are getting great technology and doing away with the troublesome transmission and oil comsumption of the old RAV4, you are still stuck with a super dated look and cheap interior.

I checked one out at my local dealer and was pretty disappointed that it looked almost exactly like our 2006 RAV4 we just traded in.

Everything else I agree with. It's got loads of utility built into it and if I lived closer to work and made a bit more money I would consider it.

 

Because it is a compliance vehicle and Toyota has no interest in spending any more money than they have to
I am still hopeful they will change their mind, expand the Rav4ev service to other states. That is one of my wife's favorite cars and one I like quite a bit as well.

 

You guys say it looks dated (yes I am biased), it still looks much better than most cars on the road. It's only dated because there are so many of them on the road. I guess am one of the few who doesn't like the new design (looks like yet another soccer mom SUV), but geez, look at how much vehicle you are getting. You'll get over the 'dated' look really fast

 

No, it's because IT IS DATED. There is no way around it. Go shopping for vehicles in this class and that becomes readily apparent. It's one of the reasons we ended up with a 2013 Acura RDX instead of a RAV4. Somewhat different class I know but after owning a 2006 RAV4 we were tired of the look and the problems creeping up (transmission failure and massive oil consumption).

 

Can't go by maintenance issues now, any car could have those, I know plenty of people (myself included) who have 0 problems, not to mention, the EV doesn't use any of these components, so it's a moot point, we are talking about 'looks'.

Comparing your RDX, which only has a few HP more than my car, but costs $10,000 more, that's a fair comparison I know people who have had nothing but trouble with RDX SUVs, does that mean they are dated or bad? NO. Anyways, let's just drop this already. This is about EVs.

 

It was just a side point. Regardless, the RAV4 EV is quite dated inside and out. Go look at the first model year of that body style and then go look at the RAV4 EV. Now take a look at the 2013 model. I feel I am making a valid point here. How many people don't mind paying top dollar for a dated vehicle? How long before the current RAV4 EV starts feeling like the original RAV4 EV? I wouldn't drive an original version personally.

 

I do mind paying top dollar for an old car. That's why I usually buy the first model year or after a mid-model change. That new feeling is crucial. But since the Gen3 and Gen4 Rav4's are bloated behemoths, I'd prefer the original smaller Gen1 Rav4 EV. It cost $60k also I remember back in the 90's. It was a Corolla on stilts back then instead of the monstrosity it is today. That's probably why Honda's CRV sells more. It is still the same size as the original, smaller in some dimensions even.

 

Well not all wives are good surrogates for the general public.. but your's does have a very valid point. My wife also worried about plugging it (though its my car so she rarely gets to drive it), but after having the plug just hanging there, and a comment or two when she fills up her car on cold ugly snow days, and she's been converted. Of course the Volt also has more EV to offer. She now really likes taking it on weekends for shopping.. guilt free multi-store shopping to save $.25 on this or $1.00 on that makes more sense when you are not spending all the savings on gas to get between shops. She also really likes the quite smooth power of EV..

 

Having actually done that (owning a 2007 Sport, and researched/experienced the new model), and not noticing much difference between the 2, I can't really comment on that, but this is really a personal opinion, so no point in discussing it. The tech (drivetrain, dash, etc) is all Tesla based.

As for the Model S, they just made some more announcements which makes the Model S 'deal' even sweeter:

Tesla Announces Guaranteed Best Resale Value and Improved Financing - Articles - Articles - Home - ChargeNY

 

Example Resale Value:

According to Elon Musk today on the announcement call: He is guaranteeing 50% resale value at 3 years. This is HIGHER than that of BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus or Jaguar.

So as an example: A $95K Tesla purchased today would be valued at $47,500 in 3 years.

I would just like to re-state my estimate of a reasonable value for a 4 year old Model S as $40K. If you map out Elon's numbers to 4 years you would come up with less than my estimate. So your trade-in value at a TSLA dealer for a 4 year old $95K Model S would be about $32K, for example. I think private party price will be around $40K.

I love this car and am a big fan (and investor) in TSLA. But I don't think people are being realistic when they assume that a luxury car is going to be worth 60 or 70% of it's value after 4 years.

By the way, the lease prices dropped with today's announcement; so go buy your Model S!

 

I think you are buying a marketing message. Any good mechanical engineer could remove half the batteries and replace them with structural members that are stronger, lighter and certainly cheaper. And you could put insulation in that would deaden the road noise even better. The batteries are NOT structural by themselves, but rather the structural container that they have chosen to hold them. Certainly Tesla deserves credit for this.

Thought experiment: if batteries really could be made to be structural don't you think laptops, phones and tablets would be doing this?

Mike

 

Not quite. They added a longer term lease, which, I am guessing, will cost you more overall.
The minimum residual value is not an estimate, it is a minimum.
I don't know what the cars will be worth in 4 years, too many variables. However, if I were to guess, I would guess 60%.

 

My apologies Mike, I was not clear. Of course I did mean the battery pack, not the batteries themselves.
As for marketing, I didn't buy any such marketing message. I actually could care less about those particular bonuses. I choose cars based on lowering the gasoline use, which is why we drove a pair of Prii for years.
But after experiencing the benefits listed above, holy cow.

 

So Tesla is saying 50% at 3 years and you are saying 60% at 4 years? This makes no sense.

I can imagine a good natured company giving you 5 or 10% higher than their estimated minimum value, but you are saying 27% higher than what Tesla themselves guarantees!?! 50% at 3 years means around 33% at 4 years. Even I think it will be worth more than 33%, but 60% is not realistic.

They are a business, and I can't see them doing that without pissing off their investors.

 

See it does. I'm not saying Tesla will give you 60%. I am saying my guess is that the car's worth on the market will be 60%.
In other words, if someone sells a Model S on the open market, they will get 60%. If they sell to Tesla they will get 50% (if that is the number, I haven't seen the numbers yet).

Let me ask you, have you ever been able to buy a used car from a dealer for the same price they paid for it?

 

What I am hearing indirectly is a soft 1% per month for the floor. 36 months = 64% residual, 48 months = 52% residual. This is what Tesla will offer toward a tradeup. Private sales should yield better if the vehicle is maintained well and doesn't have any damage or excessive wear.

 

The 50% year 3 numbers are the numbers Elon Musk stated in the call this morning.

Maybe you are talking year 3? I'm talking year 4.

We can extrapolate year 4 trade in from Tesla at 33%. I was saying $40K on the Market at age of 4 years and around 80K miles; which is much higher than 33%.

Note that I'm being pretty conservative here, as Tesla won't even promise 50% on any extras after base price. Direct from Tesla:

Welcome to the Tesla Family! Your vehicle identified above (“Vehicle”) qualifies for our Resale Value Guarantee (“Guarantee”). We guarantee that your vehicle will have a resale value after 3 years of at least the Guaranteed Resale Value specified above. This value is equal to 50% of the base purchase price of the 60kWhr Model S at the time of your purchase of the Vehicle, plus 43% of the original purchase price for all options including the upgrade to the 85kWhr battery pack (exclusive of taxes, fees and accessories). During the period between 36 months to 39 months from your Guarantee Effective Date, you have the option to sell your vehicle to Tesla for the Guaranteed Resale Value.

Note that you must also use their financing, and any miles over 15K per year will be deducted from the value at $.25 per mile.

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/tesla-resale-value-guarantee.pdf

I'm not trying to offend anyone; just trying to be realistic. Some of us are actually waiting for the used market as we cannot afford the $1100/month payment for 6 years.