CR knocks Volt, praises Prius

I did say *relative*, did I not ?

 

It's obsolete for usage in PHEV's and EV's of the future. I can guarantee that the Gen 4 Prius battery will not be NiMH based. The Gen3 is behind the curve here.

Yes, some European and US states can be quite draconian in their policies.

Only the dealer has the new parts and specialized repair tools for the Prius. In fact, there are efforts being made by the independent mechanics association to force manufacturers like Toyota to open up their tech.

 

Wrong again on it being obsolete. More than likely Gen4 will be LiFePO4 though.

Extremely wrong.

Where do you get this stuff?

 

Are you talking about the secret crystal that powers Toyota hybrids?

 

LiFePO4 is not NiMH the last time I checked.
NiMH batteries are not being designed into any new PHEV, EV or HV vehicles anymore due to the inferior (obsolete) energy densities.

Wrong.

 

When did I say lithium was nickel? Just because it is not going in the Prius, does not make it obsolete. There are still EVs being made with lead acid batteries... The cost of lithium vs. the cost of nickel is another determining factor. El Cheapo Supreme hybrid will more than likely use NiMh for some time to come.

How? There are many many independent shops that work on Prii. There are companies (i.e. Reinvolt) that make new batteries having nothing to do with toyota out of old cells.

I want examples here.

 

How can the current mainstream technology be obsolete? That's like saying iPad is obsolete because another tablet with bigger battery come out.

You may wish or fantasize Prius is obsolete but the reality is that it is the only proven and the most cost effective choice we have. The affordability is the multiplication factor in cutting down the petroleum consumption. The strength of Prius is in the number for Prii - not the electric motor hp or battery kWh or all electric speed or range. Prius represents the low hanging fruit that gives the best bang for the buck. Volt represents the high hanging fruit that results in diminishing returns.

Low cost HSD (Gen2 Prius c) may continue to use NiMH. FT-86 HSD may benefit from the lighter Lithium. There is room for both battery chemistries.

 

I'll say it, you're a cock.

If an eight year old car with 100k on the clock blows it's transmission, do you take it to the dealer? no, you take it to a place that puts in a remanufactured transmission. Same with a prius battery.

No specialised tools are required. I have added a PHEV kit, and it just requires regular torx drivers and a socket set.

If you don't know these things, that's fine. don't pretend you do and then tell the world about your ignorance. you just prove that you're a cock.

 

Members w/ hundreds of posts and "other non-hybrid" is funny to me.

 

Those non-hybrid owners talk big about electric but they won't put their money where their mouth is.

We, the hybrid owners, walk the walk and talk the talk.

 

That's because they would have to buy NiMH battery from Toyota.

In Feb, NiMH Prius outsold Lithium Volt by 48 to 1 ratio. :rockon:

 

Do I live on Mars?
GM bailout was 50 billion $ . The second best joke is that Govt will recoup that bailout. The first is that Greece will pay their debts...
But loan means than s/one e.g Bank gives ME money for a profit...
I dont get the money. I Lborrow money and pay extra for the service that the Bank provides me.

tax subsidies?
I work. And I pay my taxes to Govt .Then Govt RETURNS to me part of my money back. No?
I work. And I pay my taxes to Govt .Then Govt GIVES me money from sky .
Is this correct?

It is the STATE responsible for everything that has to do with tax policies. If someone, sucjh as Toyota, refuse to pay taxes for any right or wrong reason, or STATE owes to go on court and reach the knife to the bone.

If a STATE decides to favor clean technologies they set rules for everyone.
Now if a company is light years ahead, it is obvious that has the biggest gain of the rules. In this case, it was like Toyota was stealing a church...
Is this immoral? Is this admirable?

Now a story about taxpayer's money.
After W War II, US "helped" economically all countries, they wanted to control. They used US taxpayers money to achieve their global dominance. Japan was one of them. Now these countries returned US taxpayer back many+++ times with NATO! Two magic words <<Military budget>>..
Is this immoral? is this admirable?

By the way, US taxpayers had fund MARSHAL plan in Greece to take control with 400 million $. Of course Greece along Turkey were the best customers of US military industry and that was the plan.We are talking about trillions $ of taxpayers money in these countries. Thats why Greece had been bleeding... and finally lost sovereignty.
Is this immoral? is this admirable?

US plan for dominance, worked very well except Japan. Nuclear bombed Japanese after war for unknown reasons, put every effort in their economy growth with US taxpayers money.After more than half a century, Toyota took the lead in automotive sector (the pride of detroit and a sign of US domimamce),
Is this immoral? is this admirable?
And suddenly became an enemy.

if you like that kind of thinking then yes, US tax payers funded Japanese economy. But don't forget that US economy heavily funded by the Greek tax payers among other nations (american way of life).
:laser::usa2:

 

Concise and accurate.

One added point on the tax credit that some herein discovered only too late. If a taxpayer is subject to AMT then there's a good likelihood that the taxpayer will not be allowed to deduct the tax credit.

Who is subject to AMT. Generally the well-to-do.
Who can afford $45000+ upfront to purchase a Volt. Generally the suburban well-to-do.
See the conflict.

Joe and Jane Lunchpail who generally are not subject to AMT, thus who could use the tax credit, simply can't qualify for nor afford a $45000+ niche commuter vehicle with an $825 per month vehicle payment.

 

I can't believe that I read this whole thread!

What's the purpose for all this childish bickering, anyway? I personally hope the Volt evolves into a pure EV, with longer range, lower price, and becomes a real alternative to ICE powered vehicles. I'll support almost anything that gets Hummers/SUV's/V-8 Pickup trucks off the road. I filled up the Prius @ $3.89/Gal today for 87 octane here in SAN. Guy @ the next pump was filling his Ford Expedition, and was still pumping @ $78.00 when I pulled away from the station.

My Leaf is scheduled for delivery in May.

 

And this has what to do with the fact that people keep saying Toyota takes NO government money? They do. And over a billion dollars.

 

The Volt doesn't strike me as a very serious effort to penetrate the car market. Obama and his people seemed to have backed off on their green car demands for those car companies he subsidized to keep them afloat. This time around, they will sink.

The Prius is the best car in the world. With gas now at $3.50 per gallon, the cheaper Toyota and Honda hybrids should soon be selling like hotcakes.

 

You give me $100, and I'll give you $1.

"We both received money." So what is your beef ?

 

NiMh's obsolescence is real, even Toyota says so.

quote: In conventional hybrid vehicles Toyota will continue to use nickel-metal hydride batteries in the near term. ... In the future, given cost reductions, lithium-ion batteries could be considered for conventional hybrids.

Here's another data point for comparison.
The Volt battery weighs 400lb and hold 16kWh while the 200-300 lb of additional weight in the "soon to be released" Prius PHV hold less than 4 kWh.
Granted, the 200-300 lbs include structural improvements but even allowing for that, the Prius PHV battery densities are still 2-3 times lower than those in the Volt. Why ?

And, finally, this is OT but here...

quote: Independents: We Want Codes
At issue is whether auto makers by law should provide independent shops with all the codes dealership technicians use to diagnose problems, especially those involving the array of computerized systems on modern vehicles.
The bill also would require auto makers to offer the same specialized tools, training information and equipment dealerships get. The tools must be sold at “nondiscriminatory” prices, according to the bill now in committee.
Currently, repair shops have access to some but not all codes.

 

The 10 mile commute limitation is more applicable to the "soon to be released" Prius Plugin than the Volt which is a PHEV40 vehicle.

Sure, at current prices, it's not meant for the average consumer that CR tends to target.

One thing the Volt does is allow more people to drive to work at reduced GHG rates ( compared to the Prius HV and the "soon to be released" Prius Plugin).