CR knocks Volt, praises Prius

^^ I Google searched "Volt" and narrowed my search to Past 24 Hours. That was one of the top links. I wanted whatever I could get on the Volt. Many websites have stayed hush about CR's review.

Other than that, I've never heard of that website before. It sucks and I probably will never read it again. Lol.

 

GHG emissions are 70 percent lower in California for PHEV40 vehicles in CD mode and just 20 percent higher in CS mode compared to PHEV10.
People making their choices among these vehicles should be aware of these factors.

As far as affordable, bear in mind the price of battery replacement for the Prius is not going down and is still about 3K just for the parts.

Here's CR again, doing it's best to justify the costs of the battery in 2008.

quote: Batteries for the first-generation Prius dropped $397 to $2,588.
...
Given the length of the battery warranty, even if a hybrid owner does have to replace the battery pack after 80,000 or 150,000 miles, the cost is comparable to the cost of a transmission, which would likely have failed in other cars before that point.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/10/prius-battery.html

 

A government backed loan is government money. And that was one of THREE links, all showing government money. What about the Toyota plant in Mississippi?

 

^^ a loan is not a bailout

^^ tax credits is not a bailout

why are you so dense??

 

This is way out of left field, but...


I read about a hybrid electric car that existed in 1908 that used a gasoline engine to power a generator that powered 4 electric motors at each wheel.

Forgot to the jot down the name but was called something like 'Crown Mark XLVI'.

Maybe someone knows about it.

 

I have NEVER SAID BAILOUT. You are the one who is dense. I have am refuting the claim that Toyota has never taken government money. They have. It is simple and in black and white.

 

So what if they took government money and only $2b at that. Almost every company has taken government money at some point and especially after seeing the US govt bail out GM, it's so easy to ask!

 

Gross estimate -- 1% of the amount GM has taken.

Do you agree ? If you do would you pick different labels for each company so that no one confuses the magnitudes ?

 

Subsidies (from wikipedia)


Toyota has received a little over a billion USD in federal, state, and local government tax subsidies and incentives including:

• $323.9 million in subsidies for the plant in Tupelo from Mississippi taxpayers. [1][2]
• $371 million in subsidies for the Georgetown plant from Kentucky taxpayers.[3][4]
• $227.5 million in subsidies and tax incentives for the Tundra plant by Local, Texas, and U.S. taxpayers. [5][6]
• $125 million (Canadian) in subsidies to help cover research, training and infrastructure costs. [7]
• $29 million in subsidies for the Huntsville Engine plant by Alabama taxpayers[8]

 

Oh but the battery is going down. You can buy a new one from Toyota (Gen I, II, or III) for about $2500. Or you can buy a used one from a wrecked vehicle for less than $1000. Or you can buy a new one from a third party (1st and 2nd Gen) for $1500.

And they do not fail in 80k to 150k miles. The warranty alone in CARB states is 150k miles. There are taxis out there with 300k+ kms on the original battery pack and still going strong. Very few transmissions do that.

But it is true, that if the battery does fail, it is equivalent to a transmission failing in pricing.

 

Then why do we not agree to stop bashing the Volt on government subsidies if Toyota does it too?

Bash it on the truth, not on lies. Come on you have poor CS mpg, high cost, low ground clearance etc...

 

You are comparing a relative pittance in plant siting tax write-offs to Toyota to 100x or so money for squat to GM ?!

You are not making a strong case here.

 

those were state incentives to get toyota to invest tens of billions and long term hire tens of thousands of workers.

not bailout money.

 

Jeremy Clarkson is kinda funny, but exaggerates a lot : fuel cells stacks are wayyy expensive from what I've read, and producing compressed hydrogen is very energy intensive (no competition for gasoline).

Geez, is the Insight II that bad? Couldn't tell from my 1 1/2 mile drive up and down the street.

 

Less than $100 after 3 years is a not a meaningful reduction. Remember these NiMh batteries are going obsolete so expect the costs to remain the same or higher when raw materials go up in price and volumes decrease.

There was an article somewhere in this forum which states the taxi companies in those states were forced by local officials to buy Prii's.

Indeed. Here's someone stuck with a 6K estimate from a Toyota dealer.
Ouch

http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/89446-inconsolable-need-gen1-help.html

 

What connection can reason for purchase have to do with battery longevity ?

The amazing Taxi stories are from Canada, where drivers buy the Prius with their own money, and pocket the fuel savings. That, and the higher price of fuel in Canada made them early adopters en masse. Most of the US Taxi scene has a warped market wherein the fleet owner buys a cheap POS, and the driver pays for fuel. Should be obvious, but the people screaming about US regulatory demands to introduce hybrids into taxi fleets here are not the drivers.

 

I am refuting a continuing claim that Toyota has not received taxpayer money. Have they or have they not?

 

1 billion dollars is a pittance?

 

1. Ni is recyclable, therefore a value, and if you make a quick search, you find NimH as not completey "obsolete". In fact, last year 600thousand come to service in Prii HV, and at your supermarket store also find some "obsolete" batteries that feed many appliances, 1.2V AA and AAA sizes.

2. Drivers forced to use Prius is a very nasty punishment . Here in Europe many are forced to drive diesels. Still don't know which is worse.:rockon:
Be aware, one day you might have to drive one (try choosing Prius, for your sake)

3. Toyota makes prices, owners make choices. Sometimes the dealer may serve you a new part, when you only need a used one. If you fry a turbo, try your official dealer for a price. Last month I paid 2000euros for a complete job refurbishing a gearbox+transf of a 30yr old Land Cruiser, at the Toyota service how much would it cost me?

 

The battery being $2500 at the dealership has nothing to do with the cost. The dealership also charges you $100 to plug in a cable and read DTCs.

I can give you a price of $1million to mow your grass. That is my price. You are not forced to pay it. You can call someone else and have them do your lawncare. It does not mean that it costs $1million to cut grass...

And NiMH is not going anywhere anytime soon. Lithium is great for energy density, still not as great as NiMH in life. It is much easier to kill LiFePO4 or LiMnPO4 than it is to kill NiMH.

Also the forced to buy Prius thing... Complete malarky. But if it were true, what does that even have to do with anything?