Featured Corolla PHEV With 31 Miles Of Electric Range Coming (to China)

I don't think so. Toyota needs to compete with Honda's Clarity plugin.

Be frankly, I think plugin Corolla looks even better than Prime.

 

Clarity is a low-volume vehicle, so there is no real "compete". Both Camry and the upcoming larger Prius have that size covered anyway. Also, keep in mind that the phaseout of tax-credits changes the market.

 

Actually it makes the most sense. Restoring the Prime back to 5 seats makes more business sense than introducing another same sized car simply to address the 4 seat problem. And funny you talk diversity when the Prius V and C are on the chopping block and Toyota is actually doing the opposite.

And I may have missed it... but I haven't yet heard Toyota planning a PHEV Camry. Right after the Prime was criticized, the engineer who admitted the 4 seats was a compromise made a side remark where he thinks he may know how to fix that. With that, and with Honda setting an example of going bigger for a PHEV with the Clarity the chances of a PHEV Camry is muddy.

And screw SUV's. Even here where it snows 6 months a year, the only advantage I see with SUVs is crawling underneath will be easier for maintenance. The rest of it is a very inefficient and expensive way to bolster peoples egos.

 

honestly, I think both are ugly so looks doesn't matter...and you can add the camry to that too lol.

But from practical (hatchback etc) and efficiency point the Prime is still the most efficient. Of course inside the Camry would be much nicer and drive better.

 

A new larger Prius mule was spotted last fall, with a CUV style body (large wagon). It nicely fills the product gap for large seating & cargo, without being a SUV or sedan.

 

ah yes... that one! That is actually what I'm hoping the 5 seat Prime fix will be, hopefully morphed to a CUV due to the batteries on the floor.

It will be the worse if they screw it up and not offer a plug

 

The Clarity PHEV has only been on sale for 7 months, and its rate still appears to be growing. The Prime is doing better, which could simply be due to its lower price. A Camry Prime will be closer to the Clarity in price.

I don't see the Prime breaking 40k sales this year. Which puts labeling the Clarity low volume along the lines of discussing who has the more popular fries; Wendy's or Sonic.

Not all SUVs are FSPs. The segment that has been growing is the one with the Rav4. The current Camry greatly bests it, but it isn't a like comparison. The 2018 is a redesign with a more efficient engine and 8 speed transmission. The 2018 Rav4 is a generation at the end of it's life, with older ICE and 6 speed transmission. Compared to the last Camry, it is 23city/29hwy/25combined(mpg) to the sedan's 24/33/27. With new engine, transmission, and hybrid system, the next(2019?) Rav4's fuel economy could improve like the Camry's did.

Has Toyota confirmed that North America is getting it?

On the Prius c front, I don't think the US will get whatever replaces it with current gas prices. I'm also expecting the Yaris hatchback to be replaced by a reskinned Mazda2 hatchback for here.

 

No only rumors which look less likely than when the rumors first came out.

For the US it was reported (but looks like a rumor report) that for 2019 - the toyota made yaris hatch is no more, while the previous scion version of the corola hatch will be what toyota sells as there bottom of the line hatchback. The mazda 2 based yaris sedan will get higher level trim options for 2019. In 2017 the yaris hatchback didn't sell well in the US and likely lost toyota money on every one they sold. With ford discontinuing the fiesta, and the new updates to the corolla, the yaris sedan + corrolla sedan + hatchback makes sense. I guess that yaris hatchback didn't still make sense in the toyota lineup with scion gone.

 

Honda very specifically said Clarity would be low volume.

30,000 for the entire product-cycle here.

 

Why would you be comparing RAV4 to the Camry? The better comparison would be the RAV4 and the V as they are around the same age. The V was the more efficient choice over the same age RAV4. Since the V has around the same efficiency as the previous Camry hybrid, an update would probably put it around the same as the new Camry (50+ mpg) give or take a few. The upcoming Rav4 Hybrid is targeting 42mpg which is quite impressive for an SUV, but doesn't even hit the ageing V numbers.

 

Looking for something else, I stumbled upon Fueleconomy.gov entries for 2016 to 2018 Mazda2s. Could have been Yaris iA/sedan data erroneously entered, but the listings are for hatchbacks.
Compare Side-by-Side


The Yaris is using aging technology; the automatic is still just a 4 speed. It barely beats the Corolla iM in fuel economy, and the Mirage hatchback does much better with some more space while being listed for thousands less. Going down the brand's lineup, the Yaris matches up with Chevy's Sonic, and that "subcompact" hatchback is about the size of the iM. It would be shocking if the Yaris did well.

If inclined to keep offering a small hatchback, reskinning a Mazda2 hatch would bring the needed fuel economy improvements for less than introducing the next Yaris. The only thing I see saving the actual Yaris in the US is the next Yaris hybrid coming to replace the Prius c, but I have odds against that happening at current gas prices.

You might be thinking of numbers for just the BEV and FCEV. Honda stated 75k for the entire line up over 4 years back at the last NY auto show.
http://wardsauto.com/2017-new-york-international-auto-show/honda-details-clarity-phev-ev-targets-75000-us-sales

Perhaps because the Prius v is dead. You still get it up north, but it is already discontinued in the US.

Really, I chose Rav4 to Camry because that is the shift car buyers are making. I also wanted to keep it the comparison to like tech, and if the Rav4 doesn't have the last Camry's engine and transmission, they are really close. The hybrid Rav4 has been a sales hit, but it is just around 12% of total Rav4 sales in the US. Hybrids are only about 6% of Camry sales.

Returning to the border divide, only the US LE hybrid has a non-imperial mpg rating over 50. Toyota manages that by equipping it with small steel wheels. The Canadian LE hybrid keeps the alloys the ICE model has, and just misses the 50mpg mark.

A 42mpg(standard) for the next Rav4 hybrid would have it matching the Prius v's rating in the US, and would be 4mpg lower than the Camry hybrid XLE/SE combined rating here.

Which was my original point, the SUVs that are now popular are close to sedan option that is being passed on in fuel economy. These aren't the SUVs of yesteryear that were lucky to get 20mpg.

 

goodcarbadcar shows 0 sales after 2016 in the US or canada. In 2016 numbers are for the 2015 my. Mazda was planning to sell the hatch in 2016 and got epa ratings, but then changed there minds. I have no idea what's up with the 2017 and 2018 ratings. Mazda 2 Sales Figures | GCBC

sure toyota can ask for mazda 2 hatchbacks labeled as yaris, but the yaris hatch didn't sell last year, I don't think the hatch would compete with the corolla hatch or the fit all that well.

Agree with the rest of your post.

 

Well if we're going to dream . . . . make my PHEV an Avalon ... w/ at least 30EV miles

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Done, if you don't need a trunk.