Featured Conversations at a Toyota dealership

The gps stopped working on my 2012. I had no clue, so I just used my phone

 

What do you mean to cost $x to fix my car? I'm not paying that. You guys are robbing me lmao

 

You put that much faith in what "the government" says?

Yes, the IRS offers a business deduction rate that assigns all costs to amortize over mileage only, not over time. But it has restrictions. Other uses are allowed only much lower rates.

In a more nuanced model of personal car ownership, apart from IRS business expense deduction rules, costs don't stop while the car is parked, but continue ticking up with the calendar. For some use patterns, more costs are better assigned to the calendar than to the odometer.

When you leave your own car parked at home and rent another similar vehicle to drive, do your fixed ownership costs drop? Mine don't. The rent-to-drive model works better when it allows someone to either avoid ownership entirely, or to reduce the 'household fleet'.

Maybe true now, but I remember some times when the expected fuel cost over the life of the car, was similar to or sometimes greater than its MSRP.

 

That car is still just a baby. We can revisit this again sometime between 100k and 250k miles.

 

i agree that fuel costs are insignificant. that's why so many americans drive vehicles much larger than they need.

 

I agree with bisco's post - with an exception-
if you are a cheapskate and pay close attention to buying an economy vehicle you can save just a tremendous amount of money.

Example:
Car A gets 50 mpg and you keep it for 10 years and drive it 150,000 miles.
Car B gets 20 mpg and you keep it 10 years and drive it 150,000 miles.

Car A -50 mpg over 150,000 miles = 3000 gallons of gas used.
Car B - 20 mpg over 150,000 miles = 7,500 gallon of gas used.

Car A = 3000 gallons of gas x $3.50/ gallon = $10,500 spent on gas.
Car B = 7,500 gallons of gas x $3.50 = $26,250 spent on gas.

Car A saved $15,750 on gas cost.
They would have also probably saved considerable money also on tires, maintenance, insurance etc.

The fuel cost savings are even more if you have a PHEV or EV and the electricity cost are cheap.
For our PHEV currently we average about $1.10 for a 50 mile run on electric.

If you are a penny pincher you can save tremendous amounts of money over time with a smaller efficient car-
this money can then be invested and grow even more or spent on the family.

 

agreed. if you get a car that will last 10 years, and compare the opposite extremes of mpg's, a lot of money can be saved.
i'm not sure that's a common experience, but i could be wrong.

 

When I got my Model 3 to replace our failed Hyundai Tucson, I calculated that including taxes and loan interest, electricity cost, gas cost, oil change cost, for the eight years I planned on keeping the car, its TCO was similar to have bought a $22K car instead of a $56K car. My yearly mileage is 30K km.

Since then though, we also bought a Prius Prime to reduce the mileage on the Model 3 and it the year we've got it, we added 18K km to it (so about 18K less on the Model 3, a bit less since we sometimes used both at the same time). We averaged 1.8L/100 km so for 18K km, that comes up to 324L of gas used, for a cost of around $486, way less than my Tucson was costing us on gas alone. 324L would have driven us just 3240 km with the Tucson (10L/100 km). As far as electricity for the Prime, it's probably less than $50 a year, about half the cost of a oil change, that I do only once a year instead of at least twice with the Tucson.

I'm not going back to a plain ICE ever again, even a plain hybrid is out of the question.

 

I hear ya sylva, if I was paying the same for electric I'd probably not even bother watching our meter.
The numbers are important with ele usage and personal preferences.
Our variable ele rate has almost doubled in the last couple years,
a couple years ago I tracked cost/kW every month,
I track it per year now while calculating solar as I learn more about its benefits and issues.
And still glad to say our rates are low when comparing to what some others are paying today. 9 12 19 42 etc. Our Prime uses about 300kW (estimated) a month at one to two full charges a day (( also estimated )).

 

Ok, but with some cars needing $9,000 transmission replacements before 100k miles, I'm not sure that those fuel savings are as much of a concern to some people as other factors.

In my own experience, I've kept my Avalon hybrid for the past 6 years and so far can't say that's it has saved me any more money on fuel than our previous non-hybrid car, not to mention that now I'm a bit concerned about what it will cost me to replace the HV battery here one of these days since the car is 11 years old with 150,000 miles and I'm keeping it until I can't drive it no more.

 

I think you mean, much of the motoring public feels that way. Along with vehicle size, I take typical traffic speeding as an indicator that those people don't really believe fuel prices are too high, even amid the political griping about it.

But I see this as more a reflection of their financial literacy or discipline, not fiscal reality.

Just 10 years? Just 150k?

Keeping it longer can significantly reduce annual cost. With many of today's cars, repairs on old units can stay cheaper than depreciation on new units for considerably longer.

I wish.

Actually, not really. I live in a carbon-tax state, and will be voting against the ballot measure to repeal this carbon tax. Successfully addressing Climate Change demands such measures.

... or fund an earlier retirement, to go play outside and travel more while the body is still able.

The spouse (older than me, and born when her mother was ~40) vividly remembers aunts and uncles sitting around at family gatherings and describing what they planned to do in retirement. None of them were able to follow through with their stated plans, at least as couples, due to health and/or finances. That is why my spouse insisted that we will be better prepared, on both counts, so that we can.

It succeeded.

 

Issac Zachary said
"Ok, but with some cars needing $9,000 transmission replacements before 100k miles, I'm not sure that those fuel savings are as much of a concern to some people as other factors.

In my own experience, I've kept my Avalon hybrid for the past 6 years and so far can't say that's it has saved me any more money on fuel than our previous non-hybrid car, not to mention that now I'm a bit concerned about what it will cost me to replace the HV battery here one of these days since the car is 11 years old with 150,000 miles and I'm keeping it until I can't drive it no more."

I am speaking from experience - not a bs perspective. Not wanting an argument just stating facts.

I had a 2008 Prius that I kept 12 years and 160,000 miles - traded it in on a 2019 Niro PHEV which I have kept for 5 years and over 60,000 miles and I plan on keeping it 5 more years. Both cars got over 50 mpg and had only minor problems.

Had a 2004 Sienna that I kept for 16 years and 170,000 miles - traded it in on a 2020 Santa Fe SEL we've had it now for close to 5 years and I plan on keeping it for another 5 years. Sienna got 26 mpg Santa Fe gets close to 30 mpg. Neither car experienced any big problems.

It took me over a year of comparison shopping and deal bargaining before buying either current vehicle.

I don't own a car that gets 50 mpg & 30 miles electric range by accident. I worked hard to afford them and spent a lot of time researching and shopping to find the most efficient, reliable and comfortable vehicles to fit our lifestyle- it wasn't an accident.

 

Fact: I still have a 1985 VW Golf diesel that gets pretty good fuel mileage (can do more than 50mpg on the highway if hypermiled at least) that had over 300k miles when the odometer on it died 11 years ago, and after the odometer died I drove it on many a road trip, including 14 trips to the in-laws who are some 600 miles away one way.

Fact: A friend of mine bought a 2020 Ford Escape with less than 100k miles on it that 3 months later the transmission blew and it ended up costing $9,000 to replace. And the funny thing is I know 2 other people that the exact same thing happened, except both of them decided to sell or trade in the car and get something else rather than fix theirs. One was quoted $6,000 for the replacement and still traded his in.

So yes, there are cars that a person can make go for a long time, but there are also cars that probably should be avoided like the plague.

The point is, expecting to save $15,000 in 10 years in fuel when in that 10 years anything could happen is a nice factor to keep in mind, but not a ultimate deciding factor for many. Depreciation of said vehicle? Safety improvements in newer vehicles? Insurance costs? Keeping up with the Jones's? Everyone has their own progative. But if someone is buying a 20mpg vehicle to save some $120 per month, I'm sure there are reasons that person is going to have and isn't going to care that much about saving what will become $15,000 in 10 years.

People only research what they think they want and need.

 

I'll hand it to you - you love to argue and make your situation universal.

I'll agree with your quote if you change it to -"You only research what you think you want".
Please don't generalize that to everyone.

For us, we had certain transportation expectations for our family's lifestyle - I then did calculations - many - on what was the best way to meet those expectations in the cheapest, safest way. After many different ways of calculating cost based on fuels, frequency, safety reliability etc. we made our vehicle choice. I had no preconceptions going in to the purchase of a new vehicle on what we would end up with.

We had been saving for our next vehicle for over 10 years so I knew exactly how much to spend to avoid any payments and to buy a vehicle outright.

Life is generally "not an accident" and by setting goals, evaluating progress, working hard to meet those goals and adjusting the goals or working harder you can sometimes get just what you need. It doesn't always work out but much better than wishing on a star or hoping things just workout on their own.

 

Yeah, I ought to work on that. Personally I shouldn't complain, my life is going pretty well. I guess I just get flustered when people suffer and others just act like it's all those suffering people's fault. Sometimes it might be, but, not always.

Good helpful thoughts. Correction accepted!

I've thought of saving for our next car now that this one is paid off.

I do wish somethings were easier to research though. Or maybe I just need to do things the way most people do them, like take my car to the dealer when the radio doesn't work, instead of complaining about it and the fact that I can't seem to find a single DIY solution online that someone has already tried with success.

 

A car is constantly depreciating, wearing out, and/or needing repairs. So it makes sense to roll this cost into the budget and continually be paying for it for your entire driving life, or until you expect to give up driving (typically due to old age) before needing a replacement car.

So, if the current car is all paid off, then it makes sense to be putting something resembling a car payment (or whatever can be fit into the budget) into a car repair-replace fund. Ideally, maybe after a few cycles, one can eventually buy with cash without financing. But even short of that, have enough savings built up for a bigger down payment next time to reduce the monthly finance payment.

In my 20s and 30s, I was able to put 50% down, and finance the rest through my employer's credit union over a couple years, for both my car and the spouse's cars. By my late 40s, after not buying anything for over a dozen years, it was all cash, no financing. I broke this rule this year only to harvest a lease-only incentive, and paid off the lease as soon as the paperwork bureaucracy allowed, a few months later. The unavoidable financing costs did consume a bit over 15% of the incentive, but the remaining savings was still quite worthwhile.

 

I think I've done kind of the opposite. In my 20's and 30's I never financed any car. Of course this was because all my cars were older cars that had cost me anywhere between $250 and $1,400, two of which in particular lasted us many years, nearly a decade each. Then by the time I reached my late 40's I thought it would be nice to finally have a semi-new financed car. So I bought the Leaf and a year later traded it in for another 5-year-loan on our Avalon.

Having a budget is awesome. I know so many people in debt up to their ears, yet we've managed to stay debt free for the most part until we got into a car loan. But now that it's paid off we are debt free again. One problem with saving money is it's easy to spend on things you didn't plan for. After a major impact due to COVID in the family that lead to some deaths and orphans, we ended up losing all that we had saved up for a down payment on a house. I think that ship has sailed to never return, but at least we are all doing okay.

 

What car needs A trans

 

Three 3rd gen Ford Escapes, with between 60k and a 100k miles.