Confused: Why does estimated EV miles keep dropping?

That wouldn't work... here in the land of ever changing temperatures. Heck, remaining in the 65-75 range for a duration just plain doesn't happen. Other areas of the countries have their own issues, like extreme hot in the south.

What about the concerns people had about batteries for regular hybrids? What was considered acceptable for them and how was it measured?

For that matter, what about aging of traditional vehicles? We've all experienced power loss over time with them.

 

What was suggested was a diagnostic. not a on dash meter. Lots of garages have doors and heaters.. if you want to diagnose temp issues, its pretty standard to have some environmental controls.

Yes most have experienced aging vehicles, and independent mechanics have ways of assessing them. The new Plug-ins present new issues... only nissian can tell you if your leaf is officially out of spec.. only Chevy for the Volt, only Toyota for the Pip. We not only need diagnostics routines, we need standards so that independent mechanics can verify/diagnose Much of this information should be required to be on the OBDII bus.. it really is emissions related..

 

Here is the big reason for the drop. Using an 18" wheel consumes a lot more energy. Your PiP is learning what it takes to turn those larger, heavier wheels. Sounds perfectly normal to me. If you went back to your OEM 15" wheels you would see your EV range go up.

 

i hadn't noticed your post on this john. but you don't do much pure ev driving, do you?

 

Most of my errand running in the evening is normally without the engine, except now due to needing heat. During the peak of summer, I made it all the way to work with EV to spare. That 17.5 miles of capacity most definitely was the result of it being an unusually warm morning.

 

you have experienced just about every range of temp, weather and operating conditions, but i haven't seen you mention the ice coming on unexpectedly while in ev. has this ever happened to you?

 

It's such a routine part of the drive, I hadn't thought of mentioning it. When you hit a slick spot and need traction, you step harder on the "go" pedal. The wheels sometimes spin a little, but there's no real difference from when the engine is running.

I'll admit, it has taken me by surprise a few times ramming my way through thick snow and discovering it stayed in EV the entire time. But then again, I wouldn't really care since once the engine is warm, it shuts off immediately after a power request anyway.

 

Colder temps without question have a bigger impact on lithium ion batteries than lead acid or NiMh.

I would be interested in the EV reading results of someone showing a decrease in ev mileage If they stored their car in the garage with a heater to keep the ambient ait temp around 78 degrees or so?

I have a lithium on my motorcycle and in the instructions from the battery manufacturer "shori" it says in cold weather if battery seems weak to leave the headlights on for a minute to allow the battery to warm up then do your cold start cranking the engine.

If this was occurring going into warmer days I would be more concerned.

I'm guessing heating the battery first by charging the car in a warm garage may have entirely different results.

Very few people heat their garages, and while it doesn't get as cold as outdoors, it still can easily get into the 50s.

Alan...
Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

Sorry maybe Tapatalk screwed up... I see some weird stuff sometimes.

 

like seeing your post's quoted?

 

so it has never come on for no reason you can think of like some of us are seeing. you're a flatlander, correct? might explain the regen when battery is full starting the ice theory.

 

I was expecting that, and I would totally agree with you... but why would I be able to drive 12 actual EV miles with the same set up and now just 9.5. It's not like I was driving 12 actual EV miles per charge with stocks, and then switched to 18" wheels (BTW these are lightweight) and then it dropped. Most of my data from the decline was with this aftermarket setup.

 

Also if your commute doesn't allow you to use your full EV range (meaning you have leftover EV miles showing by the time you reach your destination and shut off your car) does this factor in on your EV range ? So for example if I'm only using about 9 miles of pure EV driving on my commute because most of the time surrounding traffic on my entire commute on the freeway (light traffic) won't allow me to go less than 65 to 70 mph, so I can't kick it into EV only until I get to the off ramp. But again, I was maintaining in the 10's for at least 3 months, and then 9.6 for at least 2 months and now 9.1 tops within the past couple of weeks. (and the commute hasn't changed.) But what I used to do is that if I had leftover EV miles or even if I had only 3 tenths of a mile leftover, I would drive around and use it up before I parked. Was that necessary? Or was that not a factor in keeping the EV range up?

 

Should not have been needed. Li-Ion is not like some NiMH that needed to be discharged before recharging.

 

That's true... this could be what is happening to mine as the temperature in the past couple of weeks dropped at least 10 to 15 degrees. (around the time mine dropped to 9.1) and everything I do is not getting me back up to 9.6 like before. I'm still wearing two jackets right now!

 

Noooooooo.... I totally know that (if you read my original reply to this topic you would know I knew that - I am more of an expert at Li-Ion and LiPo care, do's and dont's - I've invested more money than the average person on Lithium Polymer technology) I would never discharge a real Li-Ion or LiPo past 20% of their capacity. In fact this should never be done (in regards to cellphones, laptops, or my more expensive hobby lithium polymer batteries)
You misunderstood what I meant. I meant in terms of EV range - meaning the more EV range you use up ... (as EV range is based on past driving patterns).

 

Not having used .3 miles might impact your estimated range, but not by much. The engine start to use it up produces more emissions and wastes way more gas. The estimate is not what matters, its actual range.

In terms of real range there is a loss. A a warm battery is happy/efficient battery with more capacity. As it is used the battery is somewhat self-warming. If you start/stop the use multiple times you waste that generated heat resulting in restartign on a cold battery which is less efficient and has lower capacity (hence range).

 

I do recognize these variables but all my data suggests that the battery is decreasing in performance. (As I would expect) I have spent $$$$$$$$$$$$ on Lithium Polymer technology any LiPo battery I had purchased in 2007 - 2009 has already been recycled or if the cells are still good I will use it to power something else like a fuel pump or a starter for my nitro powered engines, but they are no longer good enough to power my high torque, high powered electric heli motors.
But remember, I AM NOT the original thread poster here... I am someone who replied to this thread. I stated in my original reply that there is nothing wrong with my Li-Ion tracking battery, I stated that I have a "Good" one, but there are "Great" ones out there.

And also: I never factored in the "original range" this is all data from after I installed aftermarket wheels, tires and high performance coilover suspension. I did not collect data, then change a wing, aileron, or an elevator, then collect more data expecting it to be the same.

 

i think John has quite adequately addressed your concerns.
the drop you're seeing now is due to the weather. it has gotten colder. also, past few weeks have been very rainy, which makes you use more energy to move the same distance as well.
look, if you want to think that your battery is degraded, be my guest. but there are more productive ways of using your time. just sit tight and watch how when warmer weather returns, your EV driving range (not the estimate, but the actual range as you described) will go back up. i just want to make sure that when it does, you come back here and take everything you said back

 

i noticed a much larger drop in capacity when temps dipped below the 70's, than i have noticed down into the 30's. it's very interesting and may explain what you're seeing in newport beach. as far as some people having 'great batteries', i suppose it's possible, but it's also possible that their circumstances are very different.