confused prius vs volt

Well, I presume that a block heater has a heavy draw on its own that a Trickle charging the Volt shouldn't be a problem.

I think he was more curious as to whether or not the upfront with Prius is better than the Volt. My only real gumptions earlier was just beyond work and lack of other places having convenient charging points, but given the Volt also has a gas engine for range extension, it is better than the pure electric options like the Leaf... The stickler might be the price tag for him.

 

Oops! You're right. I'm sorry. Someone else, in another thread, rejected the Volt because they needed five seats. :blush:

 

I have done that many times.

To me the volt is a no go. I like the drivetrain, just not the vehicle.

 

I would go for the standard Prius at this point, it's a proven technology with a long history of reliability. When you've beaten it into the ground, the PHEV and EV's will be in their second or third generations and be far more practical!

 

The 2012 PHV is third generation.

Toyota started testing plug-in abilities back with the Iconic model, just a simple doubling of the pack to exploit the 100 km/h EV already built into the design. It was neither practical nor affordable, but it did indeed work.

Then with the Gen-III model, Toyota switch from NiMH to Li-Ion. They now had both a larger electric motor and larger gas engine to take advantage of. And they did. It was clearly practical, but still pushed it for affordability.

Now, there's the 2012. Cost is within grasp of the mainstream and the system is more refined. Having driven that PHV for almost a week now, I can easily see the revisions Toyota made over that previous model I drove in 2010. Besides the obvious physical size reduction, there's the way it is being used. The previous depleted the pack faster when traveling above the 100 km/h threshold. Overall, that was wasteful when you consider it would only take a few minutes to consume the entire capacity available. So, they refined the system.

A quick look at Volt is all it takes to realize use of its engine usage approach is crude in comparison. I easily get 50 MPG after depletion from the PHV. Toyota did much more with much less. Yesterday's commute confirmed that, traveling 16.7 miles and still having 0.7 mile of EV remaining while delivering a 156 MPG average. The other day, I watched the EV range climb whenever the engine started up to provide heat.

In short, there is a history already. Toyota's distribution of earlier plug-in models returned a great deal of valuable feedback most people are never aware of. They did the same thing back in 1999 with the Original model Prius here, making revisions before rolling out the Classic to this market. Most people had no idea there was already a previous generation test-driven in the United States by ordinary consumers.
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It is just perspective. You still used gas in your above example it appeared. This week I went over 250 miles using NO gas. The point is the Volt ICE usage approach is to try not to use it.

Thus is not use under hard acceleration or when traveling over 62 MPH both of which I did last night. Both of these things the PiP can not do period.

 

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

To minimize gas usage further, a lot of things have to be compromised ($40k, Equinox SUV weight, 37 MPG, requires premium gas, tiny rear legroom, no rear mid seat, etc).

Yet, you don't have the perfect "zero gas usage" record. Only Leaf can claim it, not the Volt.

 

Why would anybody want to do that with a hybrid?

It is bad for EV efficiency and it drives up cost. That is the niche trap that Volt has fallen into.

It may be a desire feature but it works against the mainstream needs. Needs come before wants when voting with the wallet unfortunately - for most people.

 

Why would anyone want a hybrid that is slow, sluggish and limited?
Some people do, others do not. Hybrids are only 3% of the market, so they are not mainstream yet either. Maybe a more powerful and yet more efficient, drivetrain will actually get people there. Synergy HSD was better than ICE. But a Volt is both more powerful uses less petrol than Synergy.

Maybe in NYC driving over 62 is "niche" and not accelerating onto a highway or into fast moving multi-lane traffic is niche, but were I live its very main stream.

Why would people want it? How about because they want a car that drives like a real car, and for most owners uses way less gas than any Prius.

Voting with the wallet is far more about cost than quality. Americans have few hard needs, most of their money is on wants and priorities. Average american new car purchase is 31K. My volt cost me 30K. If you want a cheap car get one. Don't pretend the everyone is like you. And if the world only focused on what was "mainstream needs" in its first years of offering, there would be no prius either. Nor would there be an ipod, iphone or tons of other innovations.

 

Heck I think they should have made the volt even faster. Instead of an incredibly slow 11s or quite slow 10s 0-60 time they should have tried to get just under 7s. 9s is actually average. So all those that think it is unheard of or weird to have acceleration like the volt, it is just average. It feels more zippy though b/c of the smooth nature of it.

 

Scott did not claim to be perfect, he claimed to be good. And his record is very good. His efficiency record is way better than yours, so stop throwing stones.


Totally agree. The Volt is not perfect.. just that for many people it is the best there is today. For some the Leaf may be better, for some the Tesla, for others the PiP. But there are millions for whom the Volt wold be the most efficient next car for their family.

So you don't like the design of the Volt. That's your choice. To make the prius efficient, they made it ugly, slow and noisy. People make choices.

The Leaf is not the only BEV. But the "zero gas usage" is not just about the actual car, but about their overall travel. If for your longer trips you take another car, such as the wife SUV, they use gas then.

 

Who is defining the needs and who is defining the wants, you?

The Volt, PiP, Tesla, Prius are ALL the best cars based on the owners driving wants.

Some drivers have overall cost as their first want, the should get a used Geo Metro.

Some have lowest CO2 emmissions as their first want, they should drive an EV in many areas of the country, or a Prius in others. If you raise the CO2 emmissions to a need, then they shouldn't drive.

Some have using the least amount of oil possible. They should get an EV with the appropriate range, if possible, or a PIP, Volt, GEM, Focus EV, etc depending upon their driving habits.

There are many variables that will affect which is the best vehicle for each individual. No one vehicle is 'best' for every person. It all depends on driving habits and wants.

 

Hey, hold on a minute there pal! Both my Tesla and my Zap Xebra before it have zero gas usage. So did the Zenn and the Gem. And the Corbin Sparrow that an acquaintance in Florida drives. And the iMiev and all the rest of the EVs. Not to mention bicycles.

And although the Xebra had very poor acceleration (about 30 seconds zero to 35 mph) the Tesla absolutely throws your head back when you stomp on the pedal. (Or you can drive it gently for added range and efficiency. Driver's choice.)

 

Are you implying that Prius is not a real car?

I am sure those cars have 5 seats and rear legroom more than 34.1 inches. If people don't fit, it doesn't matter how far or how fast it can go. Basic needs have to be met. That includes the price.

From that perspective, the classic Prius (Gen1) was superior than Volt and it sold more than Volt without tax incentive and gas price was 1/4.

 

I am sure he said he used zero gas on his regular commute before. He was commenting on John's commute for using some gas. My comment was on the comparison of their commutes and the overall energy usage.

 

Continuous electric mile is a want in a hybrid with two power sources. Legroom, rear middle seat, midsize interior is a need for a lot of people, especially for a single vehicle families.

Sales will ultimately decide it but people look for the needs first then the wants. Perhaps Gen II Volt would address them. Hopefully GM won't go EV1 on the Volt and continue to improve it like Prius.

 

Boy you two are bickering like old women. The op asked a question, and we have devolved into this crazy ness.

For the OPs commute the volt will use much less gas. He also did not find the prius ugly, slow, and noisy. The leaf has too little range.

Many of us do not drive like old women, so the hard acceleration and fast speeds that are needed to get the prius phv's engine to turn on, really is moderate or slow acceleration to most of us

Since the op is fine with the back seat why are you trying to pass your judgement on him.

Then their is that wierd, nasty little logic at the end. You know if you repeat a lie often enough, you may believe it, but it don't make it true. The original prius was heavily subsidized, it just wasn't by the us government, it was by one of them foreign governments. The prius is a success story of government incentives to produce cars. There are many failure stories as well. The gen I prius can only be considered a success because of the iconic or gen II prius. We won't know for many years if the volt will be successful by that measure, but certainly in 1998 by your yardstick the prius was a failure.

 

I don't want to be rude but you are very confused about needs vs. wants. You are simply arguing that some wants come prior to other wants. That is fine. None of the things you mention are usually a need. There might be select cases where people need a truck for work, to tow etc... Most families could rent them for the unusual occurrences they use them in. Being comfortable is a want, not a need. You need food and water. You need to be able to make a living.

 

Not rude at all. I was talking about the needs of the car for transportation, not the needs to stay alive.