Confirmation needed: Level 3 quick charge only on the SL?

I wish I'd gotten a picture of when it was really pumpin'. When charging starts at low SOC (~20%) that little A meter on the right is pegged to the left! It'll do a bit better than 49 kW when going full bore. In fact I think they call it nominal 50 kW. Easier to remember at least.

 

Yep, charger must of been tapering down as 359 volts @ 67 Amps is 24,053 watts (24KW), still very impressive.

I do wonder what the recomendations will be for using that type of DC fast charge, in other words, don't do it more than once per week, once per month, etc, it can't be great to charge at that rate all the time.

 

A battery pack only charged on the fast charger will last longer than one only charged at Level 2 (so we've been told... thanks to extensive, on-going testing). Batteries aren't harmed by being charged rapidly. They're only harmed if they get hot while being charged rapidly. The Quick Charger has two safeguards:

1. The current ramps down as the battery fills.
2. The charger stops at 80% SOC. (can be restarted at L2 rate to go to full)

So the short answer is that using the Quick charger for every charge will, in fact, but just fine for the battery pack.

 

And that's only about 1/2 power....

 

If there was one of these stations in Baltimore and one in Washington it would really make the Leaf much more practical for me. I can stop and wait 30 mins for a charge if it gets me another 100 miles.

 

Conflicting information, darell:

Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, including how recharging speed affects battery life — Autoblog Green

"How you recharge the pack will affect its life. Nissan has said it expects to Leaf drivers to have around 70 to 80 percent capacity left in the pack after ten years. What will get drivers to the upper or lower end of that range? The amount of fast charging one does. With regular Level 2 charging, drivers should expect 80 percent live left in the battery. With a lot of Level 3 charging – two or three times a day – the pack will only be at the 70 percent level. Level 3 charging is appealing because it can get the battery from zero to 80 percent full in under 30 minutes, but there is a very clear drawback if it becomes a habit. Perry said that most people will be happy with 240V home charging"

 

This is clear a mistake on Nissans part:

"Another interesting tidbit to come out of my meeting with Mark Perry clarified why the LEAF will take 8 hours to charge its 24 kWh battery even when a Level 2 charger is rated at an average of 6 kW, although it can get up to 14.4 kW. At 6 kW you’d expect a 24 kWh battery to take 4 hours to fully charge. However, as Perry explained it, the LEAF battery will be throttled by its onboard Battery Management System to 3.3 kW… hence the approximately 8 hour charge time.
So, even if you get that Level 2 charge station installed in your garage and you max it out at 240 Volts and 60 Amps, you won’t be able to cut the charge time. So, if money’s a concern and it would cost you more to do the high end installation, you might want to settle for the cheaper lower voltage, lower amperage installation. Your LEAF won’t know the difference."

If the EVSE has the capability (and current), they should charge at the 6KW rate, why not? of course I would expect the current to be tapered down, but there doesn't seem to be a good reason for this.

 

It does seem very odd that they would require you to install a 6 kW EVSE and then only use half that!

 

It's already been hypothesized that the on-board 6.6kW L2 charger might drive costs up too high for whatever reason - hence only the 3.3kW L2 charging capability the first year.

It should be upgradeable down the road. That is why you want EVSE equipment capable of handling 6.6kW - the actual hardware will very likely be the same - but you'll want 40A capable wiring to the EVSE vs the 20A capable wiring only required for 3.3kW charging. The difference in wiring costs between 20A and 40A will not be significant for most installs. You may even consider heavier wire than can handle even more current.

 

Yep, I am upgrading my main service from 150A to 200A, and running a new line from the new meter/panel combo (called a "CSED", for 'Combination Service Entrance Device'), to my garage, and upgrading the feed to the garage from 60A currently to probably 100A or 125A.. I'm going to have my electrician install an L14-50R on a 50A breaker, and also get a 50A, 6' L14-50P line cord (UL Rated), and try and convince them to connect this to the EVSE (so mine is somewhat portable)

Amazon has the L14-50R Receptacles and the L14-50P cables

6' range cord: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002YURAW/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

L14-50R outlet: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009W3AA/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

this is what is used in many campgrounds as well, which is a good reason to go with this standard.


SquareD RC816F200C 200A CSED @ Lowes ($140):
Shop Square D 200-Amp Ringless Meter Socket at Lowes.com

BTW, this CSED can also be used for a Solar tie, it provides an easy way to install breakers for an inverter for a grid tied system, you might have to change the 200A breaker to a 150A or 175A though, since you cannot overload the buss bars with more than 200A in total (power comming from the PV array counts as well)

BTW, the reason for the new meter/panel was initially for PV tie in, as I have a whole house generator, and the grid tie connection must be before the generator tie in... this was the only way to do it. This also works if you have no breaker spaces in your existing panel, this would usually be less money than replacing your entire main panel.... this has "feed through lugs" that can connect to what your old meter used to feed.

 

So you have a sub-panel in the garage? 100A copper (3AWG) is huge - 6mm. 125A and you need 1-2AWG depending on the insulation temperature rating. Hope you don't have to pull the wires too far.

Good luck - would be very nice to be able to bring the EVSE with you if you want to visit someone 51-100mi away and you won't be visiting for more than 16 hours and they have a dryer plug you can use.

Actually, you can backfeed 20% of the panel's rating (residential only), so if you have a 200A panel you can install a 40A breaker for solar. The breaker just needs to be installed on the opposite side of the main breaker.

If you downsize the main breaker to 150A then you can backfeed 90A of solar.

So now I'm confused - you're keeping your existing main 150A panel (the meter was not integrated into it?), adding this new 200A panel, then hooking up your old main panel and garage sub panel to the new panel (along with your PV backfeed)? Makes sense if I understand it. I'm guessing your utility feed is overhead and not underground as well?

 

The Garage is 12' from the house, probably about 20-24' of total pipe (up/down/bends), and yes, I have pulled #4 AWG with him before (He's a friend of mine, costs less that way when you are the "electricians helper"). Likely, we'll use 1.5" or 2" PVC, shouldn't be too bad.

The old meter I have is a 200A meter, but my overhead service wire is rated at 150A, and the main breaker in the existing 30 circuit SquareD Homeline panel in the basement is also 150A. That main breaker will stay 150A...

In between the Meter socket, and that main breaker is an entire GenTran 200A transfer switch, so it is wired: meter to 150A disconnect (inside house) to input of transfer switch then output of trasnfer switch to main house panels 150A breaker. The Transfer switch is also inside the basement..

So in order to be solar ready, and upgrade the service to the garage, the CSED will replace the existing meter socket, the feed through lugs will re-feed the exsiting wire into the house, and a new conduit will be run over to the garage in addition to the existing 1" 60A line that runs to it now, which is on generator power, since it comes from the main panel...

So a new panel will be installed in the garage, next to the existing panel, this will be "street power" only, no back up capability. Some of the circuits will be moved to the new panel, some will stay on the older 60A panel that runs off the main generator backed up panel from the house...

it's complex, but the jist of it is, the garage will have a new service large enough for a 50A EVSE, and some of the existing circuits such as the 240V 20A 18K BTU Air Conditioner will also be moved to the new panel, to remove the load from the undersized generator (8KW)

there is a lot going on, probably too much to explain here

 

Yup, I've seen it. There is also "conflicting" information regarding which vehicle is more environmentally damaging between a Prius and a Hummer.

I see no logic behind Nissan's claim here. It comes down to this: Mitsubishi has many demonstration cars AND demonstration quick chargers (this is the first public one - they have several private ones). Mitsubishi has been selling their cars in Japan for over a year now, and they have hundreds of these quick chargers there... being used and studied in the real world. Nissan has none of this. At this point I'm going to believe the people who are actually practicing what they're talking about.

 

Darell,

Which part of Nissan's claim are you commenting on ?

 

Nissan is claiming a lot of DC fast charging will degrade the battery Pack faster, resulting in a %70 capacity remaining after 10 years, versus %80 capacity after 10 years with just level 2 charging...

 

Yup. That one.

As a bit of FYI... when I quote somebody, you'll see the author's name and a green arrow right after it. Clicking the arrow takes you to the full post that I was quoting. Of course it was just a few above mine anyway... But here's what that looksl like again:

mitch672

 

So, what does Mitsu say about fast charging vs lvl2 charging vis-a-vis capacity degradation over a 10 year span ?

ps : Nevermind - you are saying it won't make any difference.

 

What they actually told is us that the battery will last LONGER if all you do is fast charge to 80%.