Colder weather has zapped my mileage to 44mpg

This has gone past the point where it is ridiculous.

 

Please ask Audi people how accurate the mph display is.
I bet they see worse than Prius.

Ken@Japan

 

Then it is not calibrated correctly. Have you ensured that

* The engine displacement is correct?
* The tank size is correct? (don't think this really matters, but does for distance to empty calcs)
* When refilling for the first few tanks, did you adjust the percentage offset to match the amount of gallons actually pumped?

My SGII has been within 1-2 MPG on all three of my cars when properly calibrated, based on hand calculations on fillup.

 

If you're saying that your driving pattern will change (fewer miles) in warmer months, then you are correct - it won't average out.

If on the other hand you're saying that the cold months will outweigh the warm months even if you drive the same miles, bear in mind that the threshold seems to be around 40-45F - which if you check your local weather site averages, seems to be the average (or higher) from April through October, 7/12ths (58.3%) of the year. Another way of checking this is by looking at heating degree days - Dec-Mar (4 months) are by far the coldest, with Nov/Apr much less so.

Assuming the same driving pattern in warm months as in cold ones, I think you'll end up fairly close to the EPA 48mpg estimate, despite high-speed driving. And 48mpg is substantially higher than the TDI.

If all of your driving will be at night, that might shift the numbers since nighttime temps tend to be lower. Then it might be more like 5% higher than the TDI overall.

 

May I ask what is ridiculous?

If you're talking about the thread, then lots of people here just got insulted by you since lot of us are having a decent discussion here.

If you're talking about my opinions about my Prius FE, then I wonder why you even bother to keep following it? Your nickname is a common one in the "current viewers" annotation.

 

I thought I went thru all steps of calibration, but good point, I will recheck it.

 

My driving pattern will not change. I will keep doing my trips at night and unless there is rain, snow, or something else to slow me down, I'll keep going at around 66-67 MPH for overall average. My Prius lifetime MPG has dropped from 58.7 to 46.8 since end of September, i.e. 11.9 MPG! There is at least 3 months of cold weather left where I drive... so I'm forecasting a total lifetime drop of 18 MPG until it starts recovering. It will most definitively not be able to recover to summer MPG levels and I doubt even to EPA level.

According to people who reported to me, the A3 TDI is getting around 44 HWY MPG with speeds around 65 MPH in very cold winters.... let's lower that a bit to 42 because I will be driving a bit faster... Now, it is likely summer will boost it up a bit to maybe 44 or perhaps 46? Anyway, I can easily see a whole year MPG of at least 44 in the TDI... so assuming my lifetime in the Prius will reach EPA by end of September (I doubt it), we're talking about a 4MPG difference... a very small price IMHO, in fact, quite a bargain!

 

In addition to the initial setup, there's the adjustment during each fillup. It's off the bottom right menu when you get into the menu pressing the red button. I run about 3.5% for this offset, but that's on a gen II.

 

In a perfect world, IK would get one year of 2010 Prius data to compare with one year of A3 data. But I also realize folks have to make decisions and move-on. Regardless, I'd like to see IK's 2010 Prius data kept handy (perhaps load it into one of the shareable web sites like Fuelly or MyHybridCar?) Then do the same thing with the A3 data.

I would also suggest take the EPA lab numbers out of the equation. You're looking for the best solution:

• 2010 Prius vs Audi A3 - in cold weather, highway driving

I'm good with this experiment and hope when you get some data from the new ride that you'll bring it back to compare.

Now if I were a 'betting man,' I suspect you'll find the winter driving profiles are less than 10% different. I could be wrong but I'm basing this on the "GreenHuman" Portland-to-Portland test where there was ~2 MPG difference after 7,000 miles of high-speed, winter driving, ~40 MPG. That Prius was an NHW20 model versus the ZVW30 that appears to do better at higher speeds. Regardless that 5% difference may be important, especially if the vehicle only does highway driving. ... It is called getting the right tool for the right job.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Exactly! You hit the nail on the head Bob!

Sure, no problem. My data will definitively become available for whoever is interested. I think it is most likely I will drive a whole year cycle with my Prius because hopes for a used A3 TDI with higher mileage is very low before summer or even later. Besides, I'm a bit curious to see how much MPG my Prius will recover, so I'm not desperate yet.

I honestly doubt the A3 TDI lifetime MPG can beat my Prius even with its disappointing MPG hit, but as long as it gives me something above 40 with a more comfortable ride, I will be very happy .

Another used A3 became available... just 3K miles and loaded with some extra nice features like the S-line (18†wheels with performance tires, sport seats, and sport suspension) and the double moonroof... looks amazing... 3-4K bellow a new one, so nice opportunity for a new buyer but too expensive for what I want... no problem... this time, I''ll wait!

 

They also don't tell you at the dealership that in the cold winter months you can't get as much gas in your tank as you can in the summer, almost a 2 gal. difference in my 05 Prius.

 

That's 9%. So you'd prefer to ignore any higher mileage you might get in the summer with the Prius so that you can get "better than EPA" mileage with a less efficient car.

Enjoy.

 

The Prius is averaging 43-44 MPG, the Jetta 51-52 MPG.
Remember the Prius is EPA rated much higher than my 2003 TDI Jetta.

The Prius in the summer closely approximates that of the Jetta, perhaps even better in city type driving, but only in the summer.

alfon

 

The third gen (model year 2010+) has done away w/the variable capacity bladder present on the 2nd gens.

 

The scenario I pictured was the best one for the Prius and the worse for the A3. The difference may not be even 9% FE, but if it is, like I said before, it's quite a bargain. Since I drive mostly hwy, somehow I suspect the lifetime MPG for my Prius and future A3 (hopefully) will be very close. But, it's not just about FE... it's about driving a FE car that delivers comfort and pleasure to drive. Keep in mind the A3 isn’t a hybrid. The TDI engine delivers amazing torque. The A3 interior is marvelous, if you haven't checked it out yet, you could to see what I'm talking about. The Bose sound system blows the JBL out of the water. The dash controls are more intuitive and intelligently laid like most German cars, they have mastered interiors. No center console to perturb my cramped knees like in the Prius. Seat support is outstanding unlike the Prius. Leather is standard. 17” wheels are standard. We're talking about a car from a different world but yet quite FE.

Yes, I will most definitively enjoy it, thanks.

 

It also comes with a $37k price tag, so if we're really going to compare, why not use the 250h (whatever the Lexus hybrid equivalent is). The Prius isn't a lux car, and although you've argued price point before, most folks aren't really paying more than 27-29k for a new Prius. Heck, the starting price of the TDI is 31k on the A3 (to get the upgrade audio), and to get the other features you mentioned liking, it climbs to 37-39k. The V with LED and NAV in my area can be had for 32k. A III can be had for 24-25k.

Personally, I don't think they're in the same class of vehicle, but that's just me.

 

This is not unusual. Reformatting to reflect a list of requirements:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6
0	weight	elements	requirement	A3 meets	Prius meets
1	20%		fuel economy
2		00%	urban economy
3		10%	highway economy	winter	1	0
4		10%	highway economy	summer	1	1
5		00%	AC impact
6	50%		driver comfort
7		10%	audio system	1	0
8		10%	dash control organization	1	0
9		10%	absence of console	1	0
10		10%	seat comfort	1	0
11		10%	leather interior	1	0
12		00%	usable volume
13	10%		appearance
14		10%	17" wheels	1	0
15		00%	aero drag
16	20%		acceleration
17		10%	low-end acceleration (aka.	torque)	1	0
18		00%	cruise speed > 70 mph
19		10%	cruise speed >= 75 mph[/FONT][/COLOR]	1	0

synopsis of IK's requirements

Others would have a different set of requirements:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6
0	weight	elements	requirement	A3 meets	Prius meets
1	50%		fuel economy
2		20%	urban economy	0	1
3		10%	highway economy	winter	0	1
4		10%	highway economy	summer	0	1
5		10%	AC impact	0	1
6	20%		driver comfort
7		00%	audio system
8		00%	dash control organization
9		00%	absence of console
10		10%	seat comfort	1	1
11		00%	leather interior
12		10%	usable volume	0	1
13	10%		appearance
14		00%	17" wheels
15		10%	aero drag	0	1
16	20%		vehicle performance
17		10%	low-end acceleration (aka.	torque)	1	1
18		10%	cruise speed > 70 mph[/FONT][/COLOR]	1	1
19		00%	cruise speed >= 75 mph

synopsis of Bob's requirements

To make your own table, the requirements guideline is:

• total requirements must equal 100%
• new requirements need to be shimmed into to earlier table (choose one)
• unrated requirements have "00%" weight
• pass/fail, "1" meets and "0" does not meet

I've 'guesstimated' IK's scoring the requirements and weighting from his previous posting. Certainly he has the right to add or subtract requirements and determine the Pass/Fail criteria for his table ... just as I own my requirements and evaluation table.

Now my table reflects an older couple living in North Alabama. We travel on highways for pleasure, not business, and live in a warm climate. So our requirements reflect our life-style in a warm and less windy climate, with a rapidly approaching fixed income.

Bob Wilson

 

The 2 AUDI dealers working with me have agreed upon a maximum 5K difference for my trade-in (Prius). That's all I can afford and willing to pay and they know well... for that to happen they must get an used one with lots of miles on it, say from someone who drives a lot of hwy like me but changed to a city commute, or simply someone who just want try something else. People trade in "almost new cars" all the time. One dealer is optimistic to get me something like that by mid-year or later and they think I may even get a Premium Plus trim with the Bose sound system and other nice luxuries like high-end Bluetooth with volume adjustment and LED. We all know that options highly depreciate in any car (the best financial choice is always to buy the basic trim) and the A3 depreciate in a faster pace than the Prius. But if I don't get the Premium Plus, the base trim is also great, the base sound (10 speakers) is actually better than the JBL and it also comes with other goodies I don't have in my Prius like leather, 17" wheels, dual zone auto climate control, and fog lights. Let's face it... 5K for those extra features is not too bad... I’m also looking at someone privately to trade.

I just have to wait patiently... and cope.

 

The A3, I think, was optioned with 18" wheels. Hmm.. nm, I thought that was one of the options mentioned in pages past for a "want".

 

Did I say 18? Sorry, I meant 17, but who cares? 17 or 18, they are better than 15!

Again, the base model will give me some additional features which combined may cost close to 5K... I looked at installing leather in my Prius once after-market and they quoted me at least 2K in my area (so, I gave up)... we all know how much 17" wheels are much more expensive than 15’... better sound system often has a high price tag too, and finally fog lights... not very cheap either.

Anyway, I know trading my Prius is not a good financial choice. Trading a car rarely is… but at this point and considering my issues with the Prius and how the A3 fulfill my expectations much better, a financial loss is becoming almost inevitable, unfortunately.