Clean diesel vs Hybrid research paper complete with sources of info

There are 1.2 million Prius in the world, 500,000 in the USA, roughly. Do you know a supplier of WVO that can supply 500,000 drivers of diesel Jetta and Golf?
Didn't think so.

Funny thing is, out of all the people that come to Prius Chat to promote diesels, every one of them run their car elusively on WVO, every one!! Where are they getting it all from? Here in Adelaide it is reprocessed into other products, so it isn't wasted if it isn't used in cars, so if you burn it in your car then the other products made from WVO will have to be made using something else, most likely not carbon neutral. Nett saving in CO2 emissions, 0!

 

Nice try you do realize that picture is of a 12 year old competition only truck dont you.

Its not that hard to find suppliers of WVO at all. Just the 3 bars here in town supply enough to keep the 10 vehicles in my small town here that run it fueled year round and supply their contracted recycler as well.

 

wxman,
I'll take your word for it that the ML350 bluetec has a close to SULEV emissions profile, but that hardly extends to a greenbrushing of 'clean diesel' anymore than the Prius cleans up any old petrol engine.

As for Le Chatelier turning NOx emissions into a good thing --- or at least a less bad thing -- in certain cases where other feeder chemicals into the ozone cycle are in excess, I'm reminded of people who want to dump soot into the air to slow global warming.

 

Jetta TDI sales volume is about what I expected, I think around 15k-20k per year. The huge difference in sales numbers probably comes down to a number of factors. Toyota has one of the best reputations for automakers in the USA, while VW does not. Diesel still has a stigma attached to it; hybrids seem to have less. For most people, cost of ownership and fuel costs for the Prius will be lower than for a TDI. Toyota dealers are more prevalent than VW dealers. When people think of a fuel efficient vehicle, they generally will think of a Prius. Many people don't even know that Jetta TDIs exist, or what the benefits of a diesel engine are. So a combination of customer knowledge and costs makes the Prius a better choice for the majority of people.

The situation is reversed in Europe and so are the sales numbers. VW is better known than Toyota there, diesel fuel is often cheaper, people are used to diesels and may be unfamiliar with hybrids, and so on.

My car has never seen a drop of vegetable oil of any sort. In fact, I don't like the idea of veggie oil in any sort of TDI. There's too much that can go wrong.

 

This is still a problem of scale here. There is a big difference between small town living and someone living in a normal community of 100,000 or places like San Fransisco or LA. I'm all for alternative fuels though so on a small scale this could be useful in the right situations just like hyrbids and electrics are also an alternative. For some people the only option is a standard turbo diesel F350 or 3500 series GM. I'm in between needs. I could really use a truck in my line of work but instead I haul my 8' t-posts and barbed-wire in the back of my King Ranch Edition Prius, as the people at the farm supply call it. LOL

 

I hope Subaru brings their Diesel Outback here.

Good mpg with a capability to haul 4500lbs. Best of both world. That is if Subaru ever listens. Just like it took them forever to bring over their WRX.

 

King ranch edition Prius I gotta say thats awesome. I''l have to remember that one.

The majority of WVO is recycled and made into comercially available Biodiesel along with a few other products.

The reason you see manufacturer warranties only covering up to b20 generally is the fact that most home brewers dont test there fuel to the NSTM standards.

If Bio D was comercially available only the manufacturers would have zero problem warranting vehicles running b100

Im sure seftonm will back me on that

 

Sorry, but I can't back you on that. A few manufacturers will allow B20. I think John Deere is one, and the new Ford 6.7 Powerstroke and GM Duramax will when they are released. The others, such as VW, BMW, and MB, allow only up to B5. The problem is, that even with ASTM biodiesel, the post-injection setup that most manufacturers are using to burn soot in the DPF does not get along with biodiesel. Petroleum diesel vaporizes after the post injection and is carried down the exhaust stream to the DPF to regenerate it. Biodiesel does not vaporize as easily and some of it remains behind on the cylinder walls. After that, it can make its way into the crankcase where it dilutes the oil. Many manufacturers found that B5 was about the acceptable limit they would allow based on oil dilution. Manufacturers will not be warranting any vehicles running B100 unless they solve the oil dilution problem, and any other concerns that they may have.

 

Again, due to documented problems with common rail injection, in the EU Volvo prohibits >B5 use. A large fleet provider in the UK likewise prohibits the use of >B5

In the EU, biodiesel is a well established commercial industry with high standards. Not the "home brew" you see here

 

Oil dilution issues are endemic to the post-injection pulse. Eg

Diesel Oil Drain Interval Recommendations Adjusted

But the issue, at least with Volvo heavy trucks in the EU, was them having early failures of the common rail components when run on >B30.

B30 is available in most of the EU. But Volvo prohibits the use of >B5. So do other EU car makers

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/story/Fleets-warned-over-using-Morrisons-biofuel/48949

 

Sorry, l am man enough to admit when I am wrong, all but 1, maybe 2.

 

Thanks, Pat. I don't like to be lumped in with some of those other guys.

I figured you'd have something to say on the issue, jayman. Interesting to hear the other concerns with biodiesel. FWIW, I got a chance to talk with an engineer on the Ford 6.7 diesel team a couple months ago. He said they did extensive research on where to place and time the post injection in order to minimize oil dilution. He mentioned B20 was making inroads in many markets and they wanted to be ready for it without oil dilution concerns.

 

We know you're one of the good guys and we all appreciate your presence here.

 

Im friends with the owner of the premier 6.4 tuner on the market. DPF on or off he has tunes that will pass current emissions testing. With DPF deletes get 22mpg highway out of f350 dually 4x4 as well

 

Passing an emissions test and meeting the federal EPA standards are very different animals. I have no doubt that his tunes will pass current emissions inspections, but have serious doubts that any 6.4 running without a DPF will meet current EPA regulations. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, but at the moment, I don't really believe it. The DPF is an extra expense with the fuel it requires, but there is no way I would run a new diesel without one.

The Ford engineer mentioned that they have made improvements in DPF regen frequency. Combined with the new aftertreatment system, he expected a significant fuel economy improvement over the 6.4 with the 6.7. I hope that turns out to be true. I don't like seeing so many truck owners bypassing their DPF and the smoke that results.

 

The same friend of mine has also had the new 6.7 in his hands. While I cant openly say what he has found yet. But I will say the mileage the 6.7 equipped trucks are getting stock is amazing. Far better then any diesel on the market today. Pre or Post DPF equipped trucks.

The 6.4 with nothing more than a DPF delete tuner intake and exhaust has dyno'd 592rwhp 1200 ftlbs torque

 

cant wait to test drive a 6.7, if its as good as they say its my 7.3 aint gonna have anything goin for it anymore

 

English, please. The DFP has been removed or bypassed ?

 

In performance lingo "delete" means you removed the item. So yes, tons of black smoke then pours out of the exhaust pipes.

 

Thanks F8L.
I'm curious how much fuel is used to keep the DFP clean. Any idea ?