Civic vs Prius

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the Civic is plainly inferior. It's a totally different car and appeals to different people. Personally I think that the interior styling is way ahead of the Prius, which is quirky at best (though functional). Handling seemed a little tighter to me, though not great. Exterior styling is about as good...I like 'em both. Clearly I bought the Prius for a reason. Two in fact: I think that HSD is a better system, and the hatchback design is incredibly versatile vs. the Civic's small trunk and seats that can't fold down.

 

I test drove both, and was not impressed by the Civic. I liked the exterior styling much better on the Civic, though my initial reaction was that both cars had odd-looking interiors. I thought the Civic's CD changer behind the map display was gimmicky.

But it was the test drive that set them apart. The Civic handled better, but the acceleration was terrible, and lacked the smoothness of the Prius. I also don't know if there was a problem with the demo I was driving, but it almost never shut off the ICE. At one point I pulled into a parking lot to look things over, and after a few minutes I realized the ICE was still running. I shut off the climate control, then the stereo, and it continued to run, even though nothing else was on and it had been stopped for several minutes. A couple of times the ICE did shutdown at stoplights, though I didn't care for how it restarted the moment I took my foot off the brake, which is realize it necessary because of its technology.

One thing I really did like on the Civic, which I wish the Prius had, was the combo tach and energy display on the dash. It had a rather conventional tach, inset with a bar graph that showed electric usage/regen. It was like an LCD bar volume display on a stereo, moving above midpoint as you used more electricity, and below midpoint as regen increased.

 

From my reading when doing my research for a new car, the Honda continually got better comments from nearly all the car reviewers. But what struck me was that all these people still think in conventional car terms, and wrote as though all cars should drive like Formula 1 cars, and if they don't, then they are not good.

What turned me off the Honda was the way the hybrid system was setup. In the Civic, the ICE is the primary power, and the electric is called upon to occassionally help. In all the models prior to the current model, if you had the AC on, then the ICE had to keep running, even when stopped in traffic. Whereas the Prius is almost the reverse, the electric is the primary power, and the ICE kicks in to help and take over at higher speeds.

As I wrote that, I realised that really the Prius is all about two engines working together, with the computer deciding which does the better job for the task at hand, but the real point is that the Prius design just appeared to be better thought out.

Two other factors had their bearing on my decision to purchase the Prius - one is the size of the trunk - while the Civic is a sedan, and generally a sedan has more room than a hatchback, in the case of the Civic vs Prius, the Prius came out in front. Considering that I occassionally need to cart wife and two teenage girls, plus luggage, I needed as much luggage space as possible.

The second factor was that the Civic is just that. The hybrid is just another variation of a common model, with, really, only a badge to indicate that it is a hybrid. If you do not want to stand out in a crowd, then the Civic is the way to go. But I wanted something that appeared distinctive.

 

The two things that I preferred in the HCH over the Prius were the tilting/telescoping adjustment of the steering wheel and the adjustable, more supportive seats.

That was not enough to sell me on the Honda, but I agree with others when they write that at least there are options other than the Prius for those considering a hybrid car.

If the Prius were not available, I would buy the Honda.

 

I wanted to test-drive the HCH, even though I knew I didn't want a sedan, but the local dealer didn't have one in stock. While Toyota was pushing the Prius and getting them to dealers as fast as they could (which was not fast enough back then) Honda seemed not to care whether they sold the HCH.

I knew I wanted the Prius anyway, from my research: The way HSD works, compared to IMA, with the ability to move in electric mode; the fact that the HCH needed to start the engine to creep forward in a stoplight lane; and the revolutionary lack of a transmission in the Prius, compared to the belt-and-cone CVT in the HCH, a concept I never liked, and indeed, they had problems with it.

My previous car was an '89 Civic wagon. The Civic handled better than the Prius does, but the Prius has much better acceleration.

However, the Civic has always been a great car, reliable and economical. The only thing bad you can really say about the HCH is that the Prius is better.

Of course, BOTH cars have the disadvantage of burning gas. I cannot imagine burning gas for in-town driving ever again. My daily driver doesn't even have a gas engine to shut off at stoplights. No gas tank. No oil to change. No air filter. No transmission. No maintenance other than greasing some zircs twice a year. Electric motors don't need maintenance. It's really funny to hear people arguing over which of two carbon-spewing gas stinkers is "better."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Sep 1 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]505558[/snapback]</div>

Daniel: Tell us more about your electric car. Selfmade, range and type batteries, cost, etc

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Sep 1 2007, 04:10 PM) [snapback]505558[/snapback]</div>

I am glad that the Xebra meets your needs, but for many people I doubt it's practical. The range limit of the car would preclude me from even driving it to school and back, and the 40 MPH top speed would not be safe in Southern California traffic. So I guess I am missing how it is funny that we are debating the merits of two of the best possible choices for a practical vehicle.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusOwner004 @ Sep 1 2007, 05:33 PM) [snapback]505581[/snapback]</div>

Diversity... different vehicles for different situations. Go study urbanization and transportation in detail and you'll quickly find that Daniel is on the right track. Even if everyone in the country own a Pius we'd still be screwed when it came to fuel usuage, air pollution, congestion, and urban sprawl. Cleaner cars are not he best solution, smarter cities are.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusOwner004 @ Sep 1 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]505560[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(andyprius @ Sep 1 2007, 04:39 PM) [snapback]505566[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusOwner004 @ Sep 1 2007, 05:33 PM) [snapback]505581[/snapback]</div>

The ZAP Xebra is a small city car. It comes as a four-passenger sedan or a two-passenger pickup truck. The base model, at $10,000, will go about 17 miles on a charge after the batteries are conditioned (by driving shorter distances at first, and gradually increasing). Mine has 7 very big 140-ah AGM batteries (which do not require conditioning) instead of the six smaller stock batteries. It also has better front seats, a more powerful controller (for power climbing hills) and some other extras, which brought the price up to just under $17,000. It will go about 45 miles on a charge, and recharges over night from a 110-volt outlet, drawing between 10 and 15 amps (15 at first, gradually dropping).

While not everyone can make use of a car that only goes 40 mph, most families today own two cars, and many of those families do not need two gasoline stinkers. I still need my Prius, but only for road trips or driving to Coeur d'Alene, which is a 50-mile round trip, and therefore just outside my range. 27 days out of 30, as long as I am not on a road trip, the Xebra is all I need, and if you need two gasoline cars, it's because you've chosen to organize your life in such a way as to require you to expend more fossil fuel, probably by choosing to live very far from work and/or school.

People assume that the solution to the energy problem must be one technology that provides everything for everyone all of the time. The real solution is going to be a mix of technologies that provide resources for different people in different situations. And while some folks (very few, in fact) have bad things to say about the limitations of the Xebra, the time is coming very soon when even the Prius will become too expensive for anyone but the super-rich to operate, and this will hit hardest upon those people who have clung the longest to fossil-fuel technologies.

Urban sprawl and inadequate public transportation result from people's acceptance of their dependence on the private, gas-powered car. You can change your lifestyle to make alternative energy solutions viable, or you can cling to the past and take a pounding when gas prices rise ever higher. Cheap oil has been a free lunch for a few decades, but the free lunch is coming to an end.

The Xebra meets more than half of my transportation needs, and I'm a living example to others (as Darell and Tracey were to me) that not everyone needs gasoline every day.

The Xebra is not for everyone. But electric technologies are improving. Soon even the efficiency improvements of Toyota will be unable to keep pace with the rising cost of oil. We can either adopt alternative energy now, or we can go the way of the trilobite.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 2 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]505843[/snapback]</div>

Those performance figures are typical of an HCH-II with an OK state of charge.

However, since the HCH-II is so dependent on the NiMH battery for much of its real torque, it can in the worst of situations be a real dog when accelerating with a less than ideal SoC. This is all too evident when some automotive journalists report acceleration figures into the 14+ seconds - especially after depleting the pack in prior tests.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

I test drove both, and found many of the same things as mentioned above. At 6'3" I found the Civic much more comfortable. The adjustable seat and tilt/telescope steering column made me much more comfortable. The car also handled much better, especially around corners at higher speeds. I disagree with some of the characterizations of the Prius interior being better. I thought the Civic's interior felt much more durable. The glove box, cupholders, and storage on the Prius felt cheap, like they would be more prone to breakage.

In the end I got a Prius. The hatchback and ability to fold down the seats sealed the deal. The smart key and the touch screen, while gimmicky, were also nice touches. While I don;t feel uncomfortable in the Prius, I still think the Civic was more comfortable.

If Toyota is listening, take the following ideas from the Civic:
1) adjustable height driver seat
2) telescoping steering column
3) more convenient Aux port (no great place to keep my iPod

and one more idea, not from the Civic Hybrid, but the standard Civic:
4) moon roof!

 

I have height adjustable driver's seat in my 04 Prius base model and it's standard fitment..

 

Damn you, patsparks!

I'm just kidding, a bit of sarcasm after a holiday (US only??)

Yet another reason to move to Australia, adjustable Prius seats.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Sep 2 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]505837[/snapback]</div>

I enjoyed your writeups. It is clear that step one (to the electric car) is the realization that it is NOT an either-or situation but a long-distance car and a "free-fuel" car situation. I can't recall a situation when the family needed multiple long distance cars. When I originally got the 2001 Prius I thought this is a great commuter car. Now it is the long-distance car and what is really needed is the commuter car that does not stop at gas stations at all.....and all the energy is delivered to my doorstep every day.