Civic Hybrid - Why buy one?

Ahh... yes, I understand. I went to college in LA and have visited there numerous times. I don't know that 110 entrance, but yeah, I recall some one on the 110 (IIRC in Pasadena) that had no acceleration area. I was like, Wth? There's a stop sign at the on ramp and no area to accelerate?

The advertised mpg's are that from EPA test results which are supposedly the only figures automakers can legally advertise. No other cars when driven aggressively will meet EPA estimates either.

Revmelissa, since you're new here, don't fall for tpfun's BS. Besides apparently trying to dissuade potential Prius buyers, it seems he's trying to instill Fear, uncertainty and doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia into newbies, like yourself.

If you compare his posts into Prius related threads w/the above and the definition of Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, you'll see what I mean. I am not the only Priuschatter to notice this and call him on his BS.

 

Agreed.
The OP should not expect 48/51 mpg driving the Prius LA style.

Driven aggressively, the HCH is more than a match for the Prius with respect to fuel economy.

 

You're like a misinformation plague that won't die...

true. The drivetrain warranty will run out less than 3 years, what's the point?

True. It also doesn't run without tires.

If you listen to the "normal" people the aliens don't control your mind through radio waves... Millions of vehicles, a handful of replacements. It can be measured in ppm, which is not something to scoff at.

For someone who is a dolt, that is a big sentence.

Yes but that is completely off topic. A riding lawnmower is fine if the driver uses it properly.

I also have experience LA driving, and "big city" driving... The Prius won't get 50mpg when driven in the left lane in LA. It will achieve 42 to 44mpg no problem. I drive 80mph to 100mph on my commute on the highway and drive it like I stole it. 44mpg with winter tires, i.e. NOT low rolling resistance. I also live on a mountain so my mpg is lower than it would be if I lived in the flat part of LA. If you live on the mountain, then it will be similar to mine.

If you drive in rushhour, you are stop and go most of the time. The Prius will excel in this environment.

Power Mode on a GenIII just makes the throttle more responsive. It has nothing to do with the output power of the engine. Your mpgs will be minimally effected if at all.

How so? The Prius is more powerful and more efficient when run pedal to the metal. For the last time:

I OWNED A HONDA CIVIC HYBRID. I DROVE IT SIMILARLY TO MY PRIUS WHICH WAS NOT HYPERMILLING MOST OF THE TIME. MY AVERAGE WAS ABYSMAL. IT COULD NOT MAKE IT UP THE 8% GRADE ON I-70. START AT 80MPH END UP AT 50MPH WITH THE PEDAL FLOORED. AVERAGE OF 28MPG DRIVING TO THE SKI MOUNTAINS IN THE HONDA CIVIC HYBRID. SAME ROUTE, SAME DRIVING STYLE, IN THE PRIUS NETS 39MPG.

Wth ARE YOU SMOKING TPFUN?!?!?!?!

 

As they say, your mileage will vary.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-fuel-economy/92387-04-hch-rivals-10-prius-iv.html

At the very least, get your story straight.

Did you own a non-hybrid Civic with a manual transmission or a HCH or both (!?) ?

 

Unless it gets to -20 in L.A., the results are meaningless. The OP in that thread ran the heater on a high setting to whole time. To get high heat, the engine must run. Heat is the definition of low efficiency.

 

Honda replaced the battery yet still you don't seem satisfied with the service. Why ?

I was unsatisfied because Honda Tech (the next service tier above the dealer) stated that they did not think changing the IMA battery would fix the problem and they did not know what would. If Honda themselves has that little confidence in their own product or how to fix it, why should I feel confident doing business with them?

Also, I purchased the car new.

 

Both.

2001 Honda Civic Manual 2DR Coupe
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid 4DR Sedan

and now

2006 Toyota Prius

along with:

2003 Toyota Rav4
2007 Lexus RX350 AWD
2008 Lexus RX400h AWD

and lots more before that...

 

Also, I corrected my post's mpgs from:

26mpg HCH to 28mpg HCH. In actuality it was 27.x last time up, but I didn't grab a shot.
38mpg Prius to 39mpg Prius. Actuality was 39.3mpg last time up

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...as-filled-their-mfd-bar-graph-completely.html

 

Before you talk out of your rear end, get your story straight.

In one post, you mention driving at 50-80mph and yet in the link, it's 10-20mph.

 

That's understandable. Car makers are not always willing to share everything they know but a free new battery is still worth something in my book.

 

Sigh...

When I commute (i.e. to work) I drive on the interstate up to 100mph, usually in the left lane always around 80mph. MFD reads 45.4mpg right now with about 90% of those miles commuting right now.

The post was referring to one of many trips to the ski resorts. That particular day was Breckenridge and it was a white out blizzard if you read a little more. You cant go 80mph in a white out blizzard and survive.

I go to Vail, Aspen, Breck, Keystone, Copper, Cooper, and more all in that region almost every weekend. When it is not snowing and you take I-70, the road is passable at 80mph. When it is snowing, you crawl. It is like the opening scene of Office Space where the old man with the walker passes you.

The fact is that the HCH got much poorer mileage on this route on a sunny day then the Prius did on a sunny day. The HCH could not crest the hills at speed even with the pedal fully depressed. The Prius can, and you can even pass going up the steep grade.

I know you don't have a Prius, and by the sounds of it, you have never even driven one. It seems ridiculous to me how you keep trying to refute people who have proven you wrong time and time again. You have unfortunately met your match with someone who owns one of each vehicle and is still refuting the shit you spew.

 

45mpg in a Prius at 80-100mph in a Prius, if you say so. The MFD in the Prius is known to be optimistic.

Love hearing about your anecdotes but that's all they really are.

I would say your HCH had a dead battery, there's no way a HCH (or HC) can't crest a hill in LA at 80 mph.

 

Not really. A number of us, including myself have found that to be not the case on the 2nd gen's MFD.

As for both your claims, it must be because you have such extensive personal experience w/the 2nd gen Prius and HCH. I don't think 2K1Toaster is talking about hills in LA at 80 mph either but I'll have to let him speak for himself...

 

Remember that the Prius has a 60HP? electric motor an HCH only has 20 hp elect. mtr.. At speeds of 80 mph I would think a Prius may come out on top! Also a HCH has a very small ICE, only 1.3 ltr. Prius uses a 1.5 along with 60 hp electric, much more than a HCH! Hal

 

I looked at them both, as well as the Nissan Altima Hybrid before buying the '10 Prius. Certainly if was a choice between the Civic and Insight, the Civic wins hands down.
1) The back seat in the Insight might be able to hold a bag of groceries, but not an adult.
2) Here on Long Island, NY the Insight is not allowed in the HOV lane with a single driver because it doesn't pass the emissions standards of a "Green Pass" vehicle. The original Insight is allowed in the HOV lane. BTW, the Altima isn't allowed either, because of its low MPG.

 

Yes I say so. And I say so with aggressive driving and sticky Michelin X-ICE2 Tires on there. They grip the road, not float so I am taking a few % drop right there. The MFD is known to be optimistic. However, in my case the long term optimism is within 1mpg. This is calculated over total gallons over total miles and total average mpgs. You keep saying 10-20% which is false. I know you edited the post as the original email as well as other posts you have made keep repeating 10-20% which is false. General consensus is average of 2-3 mpg high. Some are dead nuts. And 2-3% is pretty consistent with other brands including Honda. The HCH has a tank (not a bladder) so the mpg calculation can be done more reliably at the pump on a tank to tank basis instead of over a long bladder average. I find the HCH is usually 1 or 2 mpg optimistic as well. Interestingly the RX350 is usually right on, and the RX400h is slightly high.

You have proven yourself to not be a person of science, facts, or reason. I am playing to your hopefully visual side. When the logical part of the brain ceases to function, people usually like visualizations.

Well, last time I checked Aspen, Vail, and the others mentioned are not in the LA area. Those along with Whistler I would hope everyone in the Americas knows where they are.

However, when coming into LA from the East, you take I-15. Cajon Pass is not too steep when compared with the CO Rockies, but it will guaranteed drop the SOC on any hybrid to nothing within a short distance of the accent. Then you are relying on the petrol power, of which the HCH has none. I bet you that you cannot climb I-15 out of there at 80mph in a HCH. You can in a Prius.

And the HCH we have did this shortly after we bought it as well as every time thereafter. There shoots your dead battery theory considering it was operating normally all other times too.

I don't know which region you live in, but have you ever been around the Rocky Mountains? (Serious question, not rhetorical). They are large and the only way through them involves long steep up and down sections.

I-70 through the Colorado Rockies has some of the steepest interstate sections in the US. These are roads where chains are required for all commercial vehicles half the year. Runaway truck ramps are every mile or sooner. The only thing that separates the road from a few hundred foot vertical drop cliff is a small guard rail, and separating the road from the mountain is a small shoulder. This is not easy terrain for any vehicle. Regular gas only cars routinely overheat and break down going up the mountains. Regular cars routinely overheat their brakes and use the runaway ramps. Some regular all gasoline vehicles (pretty much anything economy class from the 90's and older) have to use the crawler lane with the semi trucks because they just can't take it.

It is one of the few high speed, steep sloped sections of interstate that work a car to its limits. The Prius meets and exceeds everything on these roads. The HCH fails. And in doing so, the Prius nets almost 40% better gas mileage, while carrying more cargo.

Indeed.

 

Another important point: maximum engine power is roughly proportional to air density. Due to elevation differences, air density at Cajon Pass is about 30% higher than at Vail Pass and the Eisenhower Tunnel.

Downtown LA, closer to 50% more air.

 

Good point. With 30% more power I could see the HCH being able to make the hill. But the point stands that with the thin air, the Prius has 0 issues and nets higher efficiency.

 

Put this another way. Honda is now below Toyota, Ford and Hyundai in hybrid technology. Arguments could be made that even GM has Honda beat but I won't do that here.

Honda has a parallel only hybrid system that delivers about 15 electric HP or less and requires the ICE to turn when electric power is applied. Ford and Toyota have full series/parallel systems that can go 30+ mpg on electric only and Hyundai has a parallel only system that has nearly 3x the electric HP and can clutch out the ICE.

Sure Hyundai has no track record yet in hybrids but Honda has a negative track record now. In some ways Hyundai is the safer bet.

Honda needs to step up its game in the hybrid arena.

 

The IMA's simplicity is amenable to cost reduction.
Honda should've aggressively focused on cost reduction in its product line instead of trying to compete head on with the Prius with the Insight.

The Prius is king of the MPG land, being purpose built for fuel economy. Not all that comes simply from having the HSD system, since other HSD based vehicles hardly do as well ...CT200, HSH etc. The secret is not the type of hybrid system but the entire package.