Civic Hybrid, don't buy one: here's why:

scottyfon · Nov 22, 2010

seangerner said: ↑

Hey all,

Before you read this story and decide to spam me keep in mind that I keep my tire pressure optimal, I don't drive like an idiot, I get ALL necessary maintence done when needed, etc.

I have a 2006 HCH. The car is a joke and so is Honda corporate. I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND NOT PURCHASING ONE BECAUSE THE ADDED COST OF THE CAR WILL DEFINITELY NOT PAY YOU BACK IN GAS MILEAGE OVER A 5YEAR TIME PERIOD OR OVER A LIFETIME FOR THAT MATTER.

Thought I would post on here a quick synopsis of my Honda story. For the first 50,000 miles my car got roughly 42-45mpg on average. Then over a 2-3 week time period it drastically decreased and is only getting 32-34mpg on average.

1. I took my car to local dealership and told there was not a problem. I thought to myself ok it's not too bad yet I will just keep an eye on it. Of course it got worse, so...

2. Take my car back to dealership. They tell me they duplicated my issue. Called Honda tech line who told them they were working on a car with almost the same issue. Tech line told them they replaced the battery and loaded new software into the car but neither one fixed the problem. The dealership's resolution was to WAIT for a fix? Hmmm.

3. Called honda corporate. Was told to get a "second opinion" so I took my car to the only other dealership in Tucson, AZ (Dobbs Honda) who told me they also duplicated my problem, called Honda tech line, Tech line faxed them a Questionnaire surrounding my problem that I needed to fill out so they could fax back to them and then I needed to wait.

4. Called Honda corporate back, was asssigned a case manager who I spoke with about my IMA issues and he said he would talk to the dealerships and tech line then get back to me within 1 week. He called me back and told me my car was "operating within normal circumstances" and that there was nothing wrong with it. Heat can cause it to start its safety feature which automatically turns itself off so it doesnt get damaged, etc. He also told me to read page 76 (I think that's the page) of my manual.

5. I stayed in contact with him (Morris is his name, my case manager) over several months, continued calling and expressing my dissatisfaction. Finally today he called me back again and I had a rather lengthy discussion with him. Told him I wanted either my car replaced or a $4000 credit applied to the remainder of my loan because if I wanted Civic EX gas mileage then I would have purchased a Civic EX for $4000 less than a Hybrid. He basically told me to screw myself, wouldn't give me his supervisor's name and extension, etc, etc, etc. He and Honda corporate are a joke.

I told him I was going to no longer purchase Honda products, no longer refer people to Honda, no longer get my 2 Honda's serviced at Honda dealerships, file a NHTSA safety complaint, file a BBB complaint because I was blatantly lied to regarding Honda tech line's MYTH car that EVERYONE is told they have worked on, consistently send letters to corporate, my local dealership, and finally contact KGUN 9 News on your side here in Tucson, AZ to try and get my story aired.

Thanks for listening to my story,
Sean
Tucson, AZ

P.S. - This is a shortened version of my story, but if there are others out there who have a defective IMA motor/battery and have gotten similar treatment from Honda corporate and local dealerships I would highly suggest doing some of your own research. There are plenty of consumers out there being given the runaround from Honda just like I have. Multiple people have posted safety complaints with NHTSA. You can go to their website and check for yourself.

Here are a couple of complaint id #'s: 10241683 and 10254417
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Hate to say this, but my Prius did the same thing. Batteries OK, motor OK, and both were correct. I had a dragging brake caused by a broken wire from the drivers side front antilock sensor. (Prius does poorly in snow, so I used tire chains, which broke, then a piece of chain flinging around broke the wire which is just inboard of the tire and a couple inches away.) That skewed out the calibrations for braking force to each wheel. One wheel's brake dragging caused my mileage to drop from 42-46 mpg down to 32-36. Something is eating energy, obviously, and you haven't mentioned brakes yet, which eat energy. Check your brake pad wear, jack up the car and spin the wheels by hand. I bet you find the problem: one wheel won't spin by hand because the brake won't release properly. Loosen the bleeder and let the pressure out. Now it spins. Turn on the ignition and press the brakes. Locked wheel again. I soldered the broken wire and that fixed it. The wires are fragile and can be torn apart by driving over a stick or hitting a rabbit on the roadway... common where I live. So, common too is the problem you describe. My dealer's mechanics were too silly to find it too. The local brake shop guy found it during a brake job after the pads wore out on the errant wheel. Go figure, right?

HIvolt · Apr 21, 2011

adric22 said: ↑

Okay, well here is my two cents on the matter.

First of all, my best friend is a master technician at a Toyota dealership. I've heard plenty of horror stories from him. I'll give you a good example. Recently, a lady bought a Prius and she paid tons of extra money for all the extended warranties and maintenance plans, etc.. He said she ended up paying the dealership something around $45,000 for it.

Well, the motor that changes the A/C vents to blow different directions burned out. It makes a terrible noise whenever trying to change to defrost, or the middle or lower vents and never changes. Well, my friend told me that Toyota pays very very poorly for labor for the technicians. In this case, the amount of time it would take to tear the dash apart and replace this part was unsurmountable. Probably an all-day job. But Toyota will only pay like $15 for a job like this on their books. So none of the technicians at the dealership wanted to do it. Eventually the boss just told her they weren't going to cover it, despite the fact it was under warranty and the lady bought all those extended warranties (which are usually worthless anyway) The lady left irate, and in tears. My friend says that if she goes to another dealership, she'll probably get the same treatment. In this case, it is Toyota who is really at fault more than the dealership. he says this type of this is very common. I could tell you tons of stories he's told me.

Another common issue they have which sounds similar to this poster, is that people bring Prius' into the dealership all the time and the only complaint is that the gas mileage is bad. He says they get this at least once a week. And people want their money back because they aren't getting the mileage that the car claims to get. Generally speaking, it is the driver's fault. What usually winds up happening is that after several fights between the customer and the boss, my friend will have to fill the car up with gas, drive it around town (driving it properly) until they use about half the gas up, then show the customer that it got the correct gas mileage. Of course, Toyota doesn't pay for this either, so my friend wastes half his day doing this without getting paid for it. So far, they've never come across a complaint that ended up being something wrong with the car causing bad mileage. So, even if there is something legitimately wrong with this poster's Honda Civic Hybrid, I could definitely see the technicians assuming the driver is at fault and blowing it off.
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Adric22,

I am in agreement with your comments on this thread. I think that these car companies that produce Hybrid cars should make available as part of the owner's manual a DVD showing different examples of how to drive their hybrid cars and get the same or better than what the EPA rating is for the car. I would even go further and have a simulator of the hybrid involved and have the car owner drive the simulator as they would drive their car and right there you can see if there is a problem with the car or the driver.
I say this because I saw a couple of videos on YouTube about someone having a similar problem w/a Honda Civic Hybrid.
I certainly hope this was not you! (the person who started this thread). If it is the same person, then you may have damaged a component by driving the car up to & beyond 5000rpm's. I would suggest that you read the engine specs in your owners manual.
None the less, good luck and I hope you get your situation straighten out.

Bigleftyinaz · Jul 1, 2011

What happen to the follow up?The OP vanished with no updates

Southern Dad · Jul 3, 2011

As the owner of a 2000 Honda Insight MT that only has 73,000 miles on it, I've had a completely different experience with my Honda dealer. I visit Honda of Conyers when I have a Honda question or need my oil change done. The service department is top notch and friendly.

The techs like my car and have clued me into many things about the rarity of this vehicle. They helped me locate a rim to replace one that I bent and gave me a lead on who had tires in stock for it when I needed a replacement but couldn't wait for it to be ordered (We were leaving for Disney World the next day!).

I think the experience that each person has, really has to factor in the personal issues of both the customer and the business.

2k1Toaster · Jul 3, 2011

The Insight I is nothing like the Civic Hybrid or even Insight II.

It sounds very much like a brake dragging issue as was suggested or just premature death of the IMA battery which these cars are known for and give a bad reputation to all hybrids. The new software "fix" is to just not rely on the battery as much. So basically take a mild hybrid and make it milder so that the battery fails after the warranty expires instead of near the end. It is a joke, and hopefully the new 2012 civic will fix it.

hill · Jul 3, 2011

Bigleftyinaz said: ↑

What happen to the follow up?The OP vanished with no updates
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The "update" is not yet complete. It seems Honda's ORIGINAL battery programing (to prevent premature battery capacity loss) was such that the car over-used the battery (so to speak), such that they lost capacity quicker than Honda had originally anticipated. The battery pack was simply not robust enough to reach it's EPA rated 100,000 mile life / full capacity expectancy (much less 150,000 miles in CARB rules following states).
But here's the REAL rub:
Step 1
Honda recalls / reprograms the civic hybrid battery management system, so that the car uses less battery potential - thus, allowing the battery to NOT loose significant capacity and thus, last until the end of its warranted life / max capacity (they don't die, they simply loose capacity ... slowly).

Step 2
Civic owners complain to Honda because now, the Civics no longer have their EPA stated MPG (duah ! ... the batteries are no longer called upon to do as much work!)

Step 3
EPA is working with Honda because their MPG is believed (according to EPA) to have originally been over stated ... and Civics were about to be thrown out of car pool lanes due to their lower MPG's. The point is Moot now in CA because hybrid stickers expired last month.

Lastly
Honda is working with EPA, consumer groups etc to try and keep the issue out of the courts, and to reach an equitable remedy for both manufacturer and customer, based on lost MPG's ... lost battery life ... extra fuel cost ... short battery life, and the like. ie, the saga continues. So ... a 2+ year old zombie thread is finally resurrected for a legitimate cause. I thought I'd never see the day.

Here's a typical read on the issue:
Honda Civic Hybrid owners unhappy with battery fix - Mar. 1, 2011

" . . . .A Honda spokesman would not discuss the Civic Hybrid battery and software issues because they are the subject of lawsuits against the automaker . . . . . "
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The Good news is that Honda is going Lithium, which will hopefully remedy the battry/premature death issue.
.

Civic Hybrid, don't buy one: here's why:

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Civic Hybrid, don't buy one: here's why:

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