Chevy stops Volt production (temporarily ...)

Yup, GM has backed off of the agressive sales goals. The market is not ready for large quantity of plugins. While sales are a mixture of many reasons/items, GM is doing better than all the other PHEV/BEVs combined, so its not like they are lossing to anything else in the class. The class is still just appealing to only a small segment.


As I recall Toyota projected 15K PHV sales in 2012..
(2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Betting On HOV Access - AutoObserver) but has only sold 1/3 of that by July, and Nissan was saying 20,000 leafs, having sold only 1/6 of that goal by July. So GM is not the only one not close to its early sales goals. At least they publically changed their tune and are saying they will match supply to demand. Nissan is still in denial. Toyota says nothing about missing their goals by similar percentages, why are you not complaining about that?


I find it ironic that someone that is too narrow minded to have even test drive a Volt, yet is getting a weak 100mpg in a PHV continues to moan about the Volts MPG.. In terms of performance and overall MPG, the Volt real-world data is significantly better than anything else with an ICE engine. At 171MPG (median driver from voltstats.net) someone driving 10K miles is using less than 60 gallons per year. Nothing else is even close, except maybe a family with a BEV with a Prius as their second car.

While is likely the Version 2 volt will provide some improved MPG, but even if they double it (unlikely), its overall impact will be smaller since the median driver uses the ICE only 20% of the time, so if they increase the ICE MPG to 80MPG on gas, the overall median MPG would only increase 25 gallons or so. Even for the full fleet average (64% EV), if the VoltV2 ICE gets say 50mpg highway (more realistic), the overall gas usage for a 12K mile per year driver would only decrease by 21 gallons. Yes the Volt using electricity for most of the propulsion, but that is the point.

 

You must be talking about yourself with the narrow mine viewset. You are also wrong with the test drive of the Volt. Did that, been there, - not impressed with this vehicle for what it costs. Also the back seat is a big negative, lacking 3 across seating. The Volt is on life support with all the tax credits the government is handing out for this vehicle.

Again, you are so adverse with the ice engine using gas, you should have bought a Leaf instead, get rid of the ice issues altogether.

Remove / eliminate all tax credits / rebates and see if the Volt can stand on its' feet - not likely. The government is trying to all it can to see the Volt be a success, but the 2012 projection of 45k production units being sold falls far short of its' goal.

Government Motors, in its' typical fashion, remains to be extremely vague why the Volt is not selling. Instead Government Motors offers excuses. They have not changed at all - same old, same old.

At least Chysler, has paid back their "bailout" package and is turning a profit. They also are trying to improve the European market (stem the red ink). Government Motors is just plodding along, playing with the "bailout" money. They really need to get real, time is ticking away.

DBCassidy

 

I just wish Toyota would have built a car as efficient as the Volt for my driving patterns. However, I am happy to see the factual data that the Volt sales continue to grow.
For a new model, which is more expensive than many cars, in lackluster economic times, it is good to see.
Yes, they predicted a home run and only got a double, so sue them

 

How about just calling in the "bailout" money?
Also, on a more positive note, replace Ackerman (Obama appointee)

DBCassidy

 

???Prius is more efficient than a Volt. If you want more electron EV-only miles, that is your personal chocie and no one can argue that. But that is fuel switching, not better efficiency per se.

 

254 MPG on my commute to work this morning.

16.7 miles using the route with 9 miles of 70 mph speed limit. Parked with 1.1 miles of EV still available.

Too little, too slowly was the concern about GM all along. That has proven to be the situation now faced. So what if Volt performance is superior. The point is to deliver a product for the masses, not a trophy.

 

Incorrect, for my driving patterns. On a purely efficiency side, EPA rates 33kwh is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline.
In our second gen Prius, our lifetime average was 49 mpg. So one gallon would take me 49 miles.
The equivalent electricity (33kwh per EPA) will take my Volt about 110 miles after considering wall to tank losses.

 

That's awesome John, congrats on those numbers

 

John,

Good point on trophy. If product is delivered to the masses, the manufacturers' bottom line improves. This attracts investors and provides more $$$$ to improve and expand the "Voltec" technology to other lines.

DBCassidy

 

That's pretty good for a PHV user but one leg of one trip means nothing.. I've done 70+ miles mostly 65-70mph with no gas, but that is unusual. Maybe more important then is what is your MPG average overall for the past few months. I noted you stopped posting on the PHV MPG spreadsheet, where you overall average was mid 80's MPG.

Only you keep saying the concern was too little too slowly. Most people, and the press, were far concerned if they could deliver on performance, efficiency and quality, all of which they did. Sales are still building, maybe not as much as they hoped, but still not dismal for a new product in its price range. 2831 Volts were sold in August -- how many Plug in Pirus were sold. Is that what you mean by a car for the masses?

GM does not control sales volume, just the quality of the product, and to some extent the price. They did deliver a car that is for many, though its not the cheap econobox crowd. With records Volt sales last month, and again the Volt crushing the other PHEV's sales, what is your point ?

@wjtracy.. though I don't know why my signature is no longer showing up.. if it did it would say
Loving my Volt! From 10/29/11 to 8/29/12, my Volt went 7633mi on 16.1 gallons of gas + 2043kWh of "green/wind" electricity. Total fuel costs=$187.82, yielding:. 0.21 gallons/100miles, 473 MPG, 100.5MPGe, 158.1 MPG$ (miles per gallon dollar equivalent) or $.0246/mi.


So I ask you, how many Prius's, including Plug in Prius, are averaging 100+ MPGe over thousands of miles. And if you consider BEVs, they need to include their "garage" hybrid usage as well.. I would have used 25more gallons of gas if I owned a Leaf (because I'd have to use a CUV for the long trips). And if one buys renewable energy, its not just fuel switching, its fuel savings!

 

That's if you ignore the upstream. Gasoline takes about 15% loss in upstream while electricity takes about 67% hit.

From the emission view, your Volt emits 310 g/mi where your Prius emits 222 g/mi.

 

The above emission figure is with the grid electricity from Minnesota and 64% EV / 36% HV.

 

What is the basis for your upstream numbers. Gasoline takes about 15% loss, measured from the well, to the pump, (ignoring gas station power use, and exploration energy) and while coal electricity takes 67% measured from the mine other sources are far more efficient, e.g. combined-heat-and-power NG systems are acheeiving 60-80% overal efficiency (see http://www.epa.gov/chp/documents/fuel_and_co2_savings.pdf)

With coal down to 32% of our eletricity, if you want to make an average statement you have to factor in all the other sources, all of which are more efficient.

Of course all of that is mute if an EV buyer goes the extra step and buys Renewable power, in which case they are far more efficient. Since that is what I do, my argument that the Volt is more efficient, holds for me.

 

I'm not sure what most of this silliness is all about, but we can kill the idea that slow sales are the reason for the factory idling.

August 2012 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card

They are over producing now as reported, to have cars for the shut down. Hopefully it will not hurt October sales.

Putting the number in perspective

Prius phv numbers are not in yet, but I hope they too had a pop from July.

Tesla only shipped a small number of cars, their first real month of sales should be September.

 

Who? I'm putting on 3 times as many miles, so direct comparison doesn't make sense. And those who drive fewer miles have a harder time justifying the cost of Volt. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

(The who is actually wjtracy.. as I pretty clearly said @wjtracy. in that part of the reply).

But since you want to jump in, sure let's look at yours. So you are putting on 3x a many miles and therefore saying that its not comparable.. i.e. you say you are driving 30K miles a year, with a 34mile R/T commute. Not very "green" behavior there, but still happy to provide data to put that into comparison.

What's your long term average?
If you want people putting on that level of milage
Consider
Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2012-13627 (GSX08) 315 MPG
Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2012-10304 (Pays4itself!) 245MPG
Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2012-06078 (Judson Volt) 294 MPG
Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2012-11378 (@Voltdriver) 865.59MPG

Each of whom is has done almost 3x my driving and all of whom have well above 200MPG overall. If one takes the 30 voltstats drivers with the most miles over the past 6 months and computes the overall MPG, its 156 MPG with an average of 14096 miles per driver.

So even for those people putting on 30x miles a year, the Volt can allow them to do it with far less gas.

 

I remember when Honda had the first generation Insight and how frequently their advocates would passionately plea for Prius owners to switch from their five-seat, sedans to the two seat Honda Insight. If I rmember correctly, Insight sales ended in the summer of 2006 . . . about six months after we bought our first, used Prius.

Even now, there are Honda Insight, version one, owners who remain passionate about their aging rides. Yet no one seems interested in making another just like it.

Bob Wilson

 

The trophy mentality verses market penetration...

Disregard for cost and focus on gas consumption exclusively...

Shouldn't the point be to replace traditional production? Priorities are definietly becoming a problem. The business must quickly become self-sustaining. We need to be realistic.

 

Good points. I too considered the Insight, after all I had a 2 seat Del Sol.
But it was lacking on may dimensions, especially the driving experience. Over its many years the Gen 1 sold only 17,020 units worldwide, so the Volt has already outsold it.

But once the Voltec was announced I knew it would be a better car than an Insight, although at the time I naïvely hoped it would prod Toyota into a reasonable Plug in Hybrid maybe even before GM could get there with the Volt.

 

With incentives aren't the two cars close in price?

Yes, the incentives will end, but by the time they do battery prices may have dropped. That will help both lower prices. However, the Volt will experience a greater cost reduction since it starts with a larger pack.