Chevy Cruze to have diesel version and get 50 mpg.

This is my tailpipe with 10k miles. I'm at 18k now and it looks the same. I wiped my finger inside and it was as clean or cleaner than any gasoline vehicle I have seen, including a few hybrids and PHEVs.

 

Color me wrong and impressed. Thank you for the correction. I'm used to the diesel trucks up to about 2006. Those were dirty beasts!

 

Yep I even see soot stains on the bumpers of some white 2006 Jetta TDIs. The new ones are squeaky clean though and I've never seen any soot out of them or on the tailpipe.

 

Do you recall what study that was?

I know that CARB (yup - that diesel-loathing air quality agency in California) conducted a study of CNG and diesel buses in 2003 and found that diesel with DPF still had generally lower emissions than the CNG buses, even with oxidation catalysts (http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/veh-emissions/cng-diesel/deer2003-paper.pdf).

Even in different versions of the same urban bus engine (Cummins 8.9 liter), the CNG version (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/mdehdehdv/2011/cummins_ub_a0210538_8d9_0d20-0d01_ng.pdf) and the diesel version (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/mdehdehdv/2011/cummins_ub_a0210546_8d9_0d29-0d01.pdf), the 2011 certification levels of PM is lower in the diesel (0.000 g/bhp-hr) than the CNG version (even though the CNG engine is very low at 0.002 g/bhp-hr). As a matter of fact, the diesel version is lower across-the-board than CNG w/oxidation catalyst with the exception of NOx.

 

Afraid I don't recall the study since I was looking for diesel v. gas and only did a quick skim.

 

They probably just found a speed where the consumption favored the BMW the most. While you can argue (and rightly so) that emissions should be used instead of consumption, it is the consumption that buyers will base their decisions on. You can make the cleanest cars in the World, but they are irrelevant if they don't sell.

 

From the top of my list:

The Skoda, consumption in L/100km,
city, highway, mix
4,7 3,4 3,8
Auris H:
3,8 3,8 3,8

This data was pulled directly from the manufacturers German sites. Let me repeat and bold. The diesels achieve better fuel economy on the highway.

In Europe you don't say a car is "underpowered". If you get a car with a small petrol engine, then it might feel strained at highway speeds, while the torque in diesels prevent them from feeling "underpowered". It's an American thing that engines need a large displacement.
The Yaris is a perfect example. In Europe it has the relatively new 1.33l petrol engine with Start/stop automatic which gets both good fuel economy and a high HP output. But still USA gets only the antiquated 1.5l with lousy fuel economy to boot. Why? Because a 1.3l engine sounds like it would be too small..

I sure hope Toyota doesn't agree with you. If Toyota thought that it suffices to sell a more expensive alternative that end up costing you more than the local competition, but still expects you to buy it because it's greener, then Toyota might as well just give up.

 

Better fuel economy? Those are two different fuels you are comparing. Diesel has 15% more energy and carbon. So those highway fuel efficiency are virtually the same for both cars.

That backs up my point. Atkinson cycle gas engine with E-CVT is as efficient as the best Diesel engine (less power and displacement) with manual transmission.

Auris HSD is better because:

• E-CVT automatic vs. Manual human labor transmission
• Auris HSD has 33 more horsepower
• 1 second faster from 0-100 km/h acceleration
• Lower CO2 emission (99 vs. 89 g/km)
• Superior city fuel efficiency

 

And the Auris hsd is available now. Some of my colleagues who looked at the Skoda Octavia Greenline diesel were told there was a waiting list of 12 months! Hmmm, is this because Skoda have a huge list of people wanting one OR have they restricted production on this 'trophy' vehicle of theirs? (I for one haven't seen one on the roads, yet see hundreds of hybrids now).

Anyhow, one vehicle uses the latest tech, the other manufacturer is renowned for using 2nd generation VW cast offs (Skoda is VW owned).

But this article will go round and round til the cows come home. PriQ is from Germany where you can count on one hand the number of hybrids. The UK has the largest EU market for them and the US has the largest worldwide share (along with Japan).

 

It doesn't matter for the consumer! Diesel and Petrol is comparably priced with some countries having diesel as the cheaper option. The consumer sees the listed fuel economies and does a simple calculation to find the cheaper alternative. There is a reason why the diesels actually sell and have those long waiting periods.

And having a manual transmission instead of the dreaded "scooter gear/CVT" is an advantage for many consumers. The more choices you have for the power train, the better.


That said. Toyota should start focusing more on what happens in all the larger European markets. It might do great in the UK, but if mainland Europe gets neglected, Toyota will simply continue digging a hole for itself.

 

Manual transmissions are almost always better than ATs because of the inefficiencies of the AT and because cars aren't smart enough to know what the most efficient gear is at all times. In NA AT's are slushboxes, in Japan CVTs and in Europe commonly AMTs.

But HSD isn't really an AT. HSD is combination of a single-geared transmission and a system to blend electric and ICE. It's just called an eCVT or CVTe because of the feel it gives.

If you think of HSD as a 1MT with a fairly efficient ratio attached to an engine with good torque at all speeds you'll get the idea of why the Prius will beat an efficient ICEV in most circumstances, including on the highway, but that same efficient ICEV will beat up the TCH on the highway.

But like the USA, the European markets are becoming less important. They have to be more concerned about the large and increasing markets in China, India and Brazil.

 

It doesn't really matter, hybrid is a stupid dead technology too. All i wanted to get across is that diesel is no "silver bullet" and electrification is the only option for the future. all these articles and fuss about "clean" diesel, or amazing CNG is just more crap being pushed by the same old bad guys.

Hybridisation helps us get towards electrification, so i support it. diesel doesn't, so i do not.

 

Absolutely. People don't just drive on the highway. It seems the combined figure in Europe weights more toward the highway. In the US, EPA use 55% city and 45% highway for the combined figure. Diesel is more expensive than gas here so gas-electric hybrid is more popular than Diesel.

It has more to do with the government policies to subsidize which fuel more and how the combined fuel economy is calculated. For people who lives in the cities, hybrids are the best choice. Those that lives on the highway, Diesel cars are better because you get more energy for the buck. In terms of efficiency, hybrid is superior hands down.

You have to consider the brake jobs and emission control maintenance for Diesel also. I don't know the reliability of the Skoda Octavia but HSD has been proven to be very reliable.

Regarding "waiting on line", how many are they producing and selling?

 

I'll give you the UK stats using the following links (note 2011 stats refer to 1st quarter only);

Skoda Octavia Greenline; How Many Left? (the Greenline is the super economical version of the Octavia and manages to get similar mpg's to the Prius)

Toyota Prius (various); How Many Left?

The 'normal' tdi version of the Octavia sells in large numbers but these do not get the massive mpg figures the rare and hard to find Greenline version gets. http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=octavia+tdi

And to add balance, the UK car market is pretty much split 50/50 between petrol and diesel, with diesel weighted more towards bigger cars (compacts and upwards).

 

I get the idea. The Greenline is a halo car with limited production.

 

Unfortunately I can't provide detailed sales from Germany, only "top 100" lists where Prius doesn't even figure. I only have my anecdotal evidence where I see greenlines/blumotions all over the place while a Prius is a rarity and Auris Hybrid is extinct. I suppose England really is hybrid haven in Europe.

 

What about the performance hybrids in Germany? Compared to the likely available options, the Prius ride alone might make it unpopular there.

 

They should try and market the Prius Plus over there. The handling is night and day over the standard Prius.

 

I think the 110mph top speed is an issue, it's not so autobahn friendly. The Ampera will be an even harder sell.

What i do know is my sister in law drives a golf, with the bluemotion 1.6, at 105hp. She reports "about 60 mpg" and drives mainly "highway". so my larger, more powerful, cheaper fuel using, £0 tax car gets better mpg in mixed use. if i was a toyota PHV i would be getting double her "mileage".

 

Performance hybrids is a niche just like in the US. The Prius is tuned differently for the European market and I don't think it is the handling that is the problem anymore. I recall the Top Gear review wasn't even entirely negative!

Someone must know better what's keeping Prius from penetrating the mainland European markets.