1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Challenge: Name an institution that has donated more humantarian aid for the sick and poor than the

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Wildkow, May 2, 2006.

  1. Deaden

    Deaden New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    29
    0
    0
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    I admit, I am guilty of arguing quite a bit in the gay thread fairytale and the religion threads. You know what, I think religion can be great. It gives people that need something to believe in solace, and you are completely correct that religious charities help alot of people. However, I have zero tolerence for the fundamentalist movement that attacks anything they deem as "immoral" by the writings in the Bible. Do whatever you want with your life. It's when you start forcing your views on the rest of us that I quickly step up to draw a line in the sand. Arguing against science because it contradicts your magic book, condemning other human beings because of whom they choose to love, or trying to force religion on other peoples children pisses me off to no end. Many of the colonists came here to escape religious persecution from their homelands. It is one of the main reasons for seperation of church and state and what has built this nation into the great country it became. Now there are people trying to tear that down. I hope for us all they do not succeed.
     
  2. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    2,480
    176
    0
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, MD
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    They could feed and clothe every poor human being on earth and it STILL wouldn't give them the right to assume they can dictate to me or anyone else how to live our lives.

    I have no problem with people practicing whatever religion they choose, but I have ZERO respect for religious zealots who think they should be able to control how Americans live their lives and how they are governed, whether they donate crap or not.

    Couldn't care less and its run me out of the Republican party, I officially changed my party designation last week.
     
  3. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 2 2006, 06:24 AM) [snapback]248498[/snapback]</div>
    Nope my topic if you want one start it yourself. BTW your wrong.

    Wildkow

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(huskers @ May 2 2006, 07:39 AM) [snapback]248529[/snapback]</div>
    Nope but their all Christians anyway. :lol:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 2 2006, 07:52 AM) [snapback]248535[/snapback]</div>
    Nope wrong again, find your stats numbers and jpresent them. It's not hard to do. At least try.

    Wildkow :p

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ May 2 2006, 08:00 AM) [snapback]248540[/snapback]</div>
    Nope your wrong as usual.

    Wildkow ;)

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveSheremata @ May 2 2006, 09:29 AM) [snapback]248589[/snapback]</div>
    All wrong no supporting facts the the US Gov. does not count as an institution besides most citizens are Christians. Try again. :mellow:

    Wildkow

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Subversive @ May 2 2006, 12:01 PM) [snapback]248644[/snapback]</div>
    Good grief Dude don't be so pompass and verbose all you have to do is list two lines with the names and numbers and a link for the supporting evidence. BTW get yer own topic don't try to hijack mine by changing the subject.

    Wildkow <_<
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You present no proof of your own claim, yet are allowed to discount everyone else's by saying "nope" and demanding we show proof. That's ripe!
     
  5. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ May 2 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]248668[/snapback]</div>
    Please if you want your own topic by all means start one , this is mine and I would appreciate if you would stay on topic.

    Wildkow
     
  6. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    1,996
    5
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ May 2 2006, 09:31 PM) [snapback]248838[/snapback]</div>
    Congratulations- and welcome to the other-than-Republicans (I'm not assuming anything about your new party affiliation)!
    I've never been a Republican, but I know good people who are, and that party will end up driving everyone out except for the intolerant fundamentalists, bigots, neocons, and greedy corporate bastards.
     
  7. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ May 2 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]248676[/snapback]</div>
    Do your research post your facts and supply a link or other source of supporting evidence. It's simple if ya can't find one then don't feel bad. Just say ya can't. No excuses needed.

    Wildkow

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ May 2 2006, 12:55 PM) [snapback]248682[/snapback]</div>
    Just like I said in my last post no excuses needed it will take two lines and a link or reference for supporting evidence. Please don't waste bandwidth and peoples time with excuses or whining.

    Wildkow
     
  8. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    1,996
    5
    0
    Why do so many of these Christian organizations (e.g., Christian Coalition of America) have, as one of their main priorities, maintaining Bush's tax cuts? SOmehow, I don't think that Christ would advocate tax cuts for the wealthy.
     
  9. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ May 2 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]248740[/snapback]</div>
    Nothing personal but I wasn't interested in your whining or your thoughts. This is my topic and it's a simple challenge name another institution thats does more for the sick and poor than the Christian Church. You and a lot of others on the board have painted all of the Christian religion with a rather broad brush of disparging remarks and yet you can't name one institution that has done more for the sick and poor. <_< BTW you couldn't be more wrong or narrow minded than with your remark s as to the point of the church.

    Wildkow

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Deaden @ May 2 2006, 03:00 PM) [snapback]248741[/snapback]</div>
    So is that an admission that you can't name one?

    Wildkow

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 2 2006, 07:14 PM) [snapback]248860[/snapback]</div>
    I haven't seen anything close to evidence to refute my challenge. So what other claims are you talking about? Your an educated man do the research and post the facts along with supporting references. If you can't don't feel bad ya'all but I am not impressed with the ad hominem attacks, waffling or types of whining excuses. Not that efusco's was I am just speaking in general now. Either present the facts or if ya can't and you just have to post say you can't disprove my claim. :D

    Wildkow
     
  10. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ May 2 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]248668[/snapback]</div>
    OK ya all let me show you how it's done using galaxee's challenge but please if ya all want to argue this point please start another topic.

    EXAMPLE POST TO REFUTE A CLAIM

    Since you can't measure hatred like you can money or death I will have to use death's as a subsititute for the term "hatred" here is my answer.


    62,000,000 - World War II (1939–1945)
    36,000,000 - An Lushan Rebellion (756–763)
    30,000,000–60,000,000 - Mongol Conquests (13th century)
    25,000,000 - Manchu Conquest of Ming China (1616–1644)
    20,000,000–50,000,000 - Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864)

    These organizations German, Japanese and Italian + others in the case of WWII, Chinese or Asian organizations in the case of the other four. People killed=hate and that's a lot of hatred all started by organizations other than religious organizations . . .

    Wildkow

    p.s. I win! :D But that certainly isn't to disclaim her assertion that their has been a lot of hatred gen'd up by Religious Organizations but to also be fair most if not all were perpetrated by an amalgamation of Political and Religious power not just a religious organization.
     
  11. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    4,946
    252
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Is there any religion other than christianity that has resulted in more child molestations?
     
  12. ml86

    ml86 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    92
    0
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Wildkow,

    How about sectarian non-believers who think it is ok to be religious, or not, just as long as you don't think you know more about how to live (or about God) than they do?

    How about we combine that group with a grouping of moderates in all religions who don't think they can tell others how to live or what God is all about (thus forming a new group to consider)?

    I suspect that hybrid-group, world-wide, knocks the snot out of any other single group, and has done less harm.

    I don't even believe in God and I am willing to bet I have just as deep and valid insights and experiences (but not necessarily more, or more correct) into it as you do. Your experience is valid, mine is valid, just don't try to force yours on me and mine.

    I am also willing to bet that if there is a God he doesn't give a flip about whether I believe in him/her/it or not. He'd be more interested in my happiness and how I treat others (including the planet). Period.
     
  13. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    337
    0
    0
    Location:
    Vermont
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 01:34 AM) [snapback]248438[/snapback]</div>

    CARE USA has contributed $514 million in FY 05 (www.care.org).

    Have YOU given US any stats yet on how much the Christian Church gave in FY 05? And Christian Church is pretty broad. Which one? There are many, as you know.

    Question-if you are a non-Fundamentalist Christian, why are you so upset? I've agreed with you on another thread that most Christians are good. It's the right wing, Evangelicals that are the extreme. No different than Al Queda or Hammas in my mind.
     
  14. ml86

    ml86 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    92
    0
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 3 2006, 01:11 AM) [snapback]248962[/snapback]</div>
    I agree 100% about right wing Christians being more like dictatorial and tyrannical extremist in other religions than they are representative of true Americn values.

    I'm not so sure I would lump Hamas in with Al Queda however.
     
  15. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 2 2006, 09:25 PM) [snapback]248870[/snapback]</div>
    It's funny you mention that. I remember reading somewhere that some fanatical guy was tearing through a festival, overturning tables and throwing money to the floor declaring something to the extent of "It will be easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven." I think perhaps it was on MSNBC or probably Fox News. Maybe in Aruba or most likely the Middle East.

    So why are so many promenant Christians so danged wealthy? Reminds of a story once in which some fanatical hippy (why is it always the crazy ones?) who told a guy that he had to sell all his stuff if he wanted to hang out with the hippy guy. I think I read that one in the Chicago Trib. But it makes me wonder if giving a lot of money is enough. I mean, wouldn't the most hard-core Christians do more than give away a lot of money; wouldn't they give away all of it such that they can "provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in [their] money belts"?
     
  16. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    1,763
    6
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 10:38 PM) [snapback]248872[/snapback]</div>
    Well, that's too be expected. Your premise provided no proof that "the Christian Church" donated anything, yet you reject any other group as even possibly donating more.

    Here's one for you: prove that the Devil isn't running "the Christian Church". I say he is, and any good works are to distract us from the evil being done. The Bible never said The Mark Of The Beast couldn't be a cross, did it?...
     
  17. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 07:38 PM) [snapback]248872[/snapback]</div>
    And as so many have already pointed out - we haven't seen anything close to *supporting* your "challenge." This is YOUR thread, as you point out so often. Why not show your cards?
     
  18. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,507
    237
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 09:38 PM) [snapback]248872[/snapback]</div>
    The point of the Christian church is not to save souls??? I know quite a few Christians who would argue with you over that one!

    I didn't mean to come across as whining or disparaging. In fact I was trying to come up with a rationale why religion is being attacked on this board the way it is. For my painting with a broad brush, when one thinks of the Christian church since the time of Christ, one must consider the role of the Catholic Church from the Holy Roman Empire, thru the conquest of the Americas, the Inquisition, persecution of the Jews (including WWII, but before that as well), etc. There's a lot of history there, and a lot of it is checkered. A lot of that is because it's been a major force in the recorded history of the western world so there's been much opportunity for mistakes as well as greatness. They've also produced great works of art (The Last Supper, Sistine Chapel, etc.), and outside the headlines have taught us a great deal how to improve ourselves and yes, taking care of others has always been a central theme of Christianity. Modern priest abuse scandals are a minor (but serious) aspect of things overall.

    Bottom line, most everybody has a strong feeling on religion and what part wins out. Saying "I win" because people haven't refuted your own viewpoint of one aspect of it seems a little immature. I think you're right in that the Christian church, because of its size and history, has given more humanitarian aid than any other institution or government. In fact I think it's pretty obvious, since the other major religion bases don't have the rich demographics that Christianity does, for one reason or another. So naturally that makes me wonder why you asked the question. Does that make it okay for supporters of intelligent design to be smug? Does it justify those who want to multiply and be masters of the Earth, as opposed to be stewards of it? Or to put into law some Christian's view of abortion or gay rights over other groups' and Christian's views? I'm just making things up here, but it still seems that the original question is not really the point of the Christian church.

    I better stop here. I'm supposed to be working, and this is making me think too much :)

    nerfer
     
  19. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    2,191
    538
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 1 2006, 11:34 PM) [snapback]248438[/snapback]</div>
    Science.

    In the field of medicine, science eclipses every religious institution across history. No church eradicated a single disease, no church pioneered surgical techniques, no church discovered a single pharmaceutical, no church invented a single medical device, no church even made pretense of trying to learn the secrets of human anatomy and biology. Across the world, lifespans are generally longer AND healthier as the result of science. In helping ELIMINATE illness, Science: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000; Church: 0.

    In the field of prosperity, science eclipses every religious institution across history. No church pioneered agriculture, no church developed selective breeding in food plants and animals, no church conducted research in physics, mathematics, or literature or even so much as supported same. Churches did and continue today to OPPOSE same. Despite the best efforts of the church to retard progress, across the world, standards of living have most of us enjoying privileges unattainable by kings a few centuries ago, and poverty is decreasing. In helping REDUCE poverty, Science: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000; Church: 0.

    Meanwhile, we're all still waiting for YOUR numbers, Mr. Wildkow.

    At the present time, it appears YOU are the only one who believes the issue has not yet been answered, and resoundingly.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  20. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    466
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    fantastic post, airportkid. :)