Catalytic Converter Theft

How do you account for Northern Ireland, one of the UK's constituent countries? I understand that police carry guns there.

If that is an indicator of civilization, then there isn't much anywhere on Earth:

 

Firearms were “everywhere?”
In a nation where they’re almost universally illegal?

Hmmmm….
Sounds like a “don’t let this happen to you!” kinda thing…..

Firearms and cat thefts just are not much of a “thing” even in “uncivilized” America if the numbers are to be believed.
Anecdotally there are something like a half dozen people with gunshot wounds in a nation where probably 10,000 Priuses have been catnapped.

In Chicago (another gun-free zone!) they’d call that an average weeknight in the ER.

Stealing a $1000 exhaust component from a $5000 car is never worth a human life.

Ever.

 

It's comparatively recently that Australia's strict firearms regulations came into force. The man was talking about a situation many decades ago.

That's one of the things I had in mind. How can it be OK for a private citizen to mete out a punishment far more severe than a court would after due-process legal proceedings?

 

As a private citizen, I have a right to use reasonable force to protect my property. Key word being reasonable.

Most converter thieves have a “look out” or two with them. Is it reasonable to expect me to get accosted by two or three individuals because I interrupted their attempt to steal my converter?


I’m not saying that I would shoot someone for trying to steal my converter, I would take whatever action is required to prevent harm to my person when confronting said thief.

 

I'm not aware that this is legal anywhere in the U.S.

What I am aware of is the rather variable legality of use of force to stop various violent assaults against an innocent person, combined with an even more variable duty, or lack thereof, to back away from certain crimes.

This is a property crime, theft in progress. At one of the spectrum, some jurisdictions effectively require the victim witness to stand back and stand down, not interfere, or (at one time) even a duty to retreat. At the opposite end, some other jurisdictions allow the property owner to demand the suspected thieves to cease and desist. If they do quit and leave peacefully, then perfect. But if they don't, but instead make threats of violence, then they have escalated the incident to armed robbery, broadening the victim's palette of legal responses.

The legal spectrum includes many points in between, with variables including not just differing state and local laws, but also the personalities and sensibilities of the investigating officers and local prosecutors.

I live in one of the original 'stand your ground' states. But this state is unique in a couple regards: where all the other states that have it, have it from an act of their Legislature, my state has it from a state Supreme Court ruling interpreting our own original state constitution, not by any legislative act; and ours is a more narrow version than the other states that have adopted this principle.

 

Trying to chart all those variables and how they interact with all the different state and or local laws would be impossible to do, I would venture to say.


Some of my coworkers intervened in a converter removal on our parking lot in broad daylight a couple of weeks ago. The thief left. Only to return and finish the job after closing time. Thieves have now hit six of my company vehicles on the lot. If they want the cat bad enough, they will take unknown risks to get it.

Im not advocating the taking of a converter is worth the taking of someone’s life. But the thieves know that in most cases, if they are caught in the act that they will make bail in a couple of hours and pay a small fine. Financed with their ill gotten gains most likely.

 

I do not have a legal duty in my state to not intervene in a property crime, but I’m always armed so this changes the algebra rather drastically in my case.
I’m more apt to challenge the act verbally and draw a cell phone, rather than a firearm.
If the cretins are pack animals, and want to try to ‘up the ante’ then it’s no longer a property crime.

If I am forced to discharge a firearm within city limits, then I have broken the law.
Period.
Full stop.
After that, it’s up to the LEOs and their bosses to determine if my actions are justified.

BTDT.

At the end of the day however, it is NEVER morally just to take, or threaten a human life over a car or other property crime.
However (comma!!!!!!)
The rules change drastically again outside of city limits.

There’s no law against discharging a firearm on your property, and you have no legal or moral duty to ensure that your previously unscheduled recreational shooting makes trespassers feel comfortable.

This is pretty much why property crimes disproportionately occur in "civilized" places.

 

pepper spray?

 

It's not a chemical spray....it's just food.

 

Just think about it seriously. The thief is the least desirable person you want to have a relationship with.

If you injure or kill him or her, you have established a relationship with the thief for the rest of your life.

Theft deterrents, like cat shields and painting the cat with orange paint are your best option.

Second, scaring the thief away is your second best option.

Likewise, ignoring a road rage individual as one who does not exist is the best option.

That individual wants an argument. Don't give him or her what they want.

 

Upthread someone mentioned shooting down through the floor of the vehicle while a catalytic converter thief was underneath it.

And a decade or so back in an Internet discussion group I read a boast by a poster who had shot -- in the back, while they were running away -- a couple of guys whom he had seen climbing out of his neighbor's window loaded with stuff they had apparently stolen; and other people participating in the discussion were commending the boaster.

 

Certainly an option to consider. Each situation and each person is different. Hopefully a person in a dicey situation has a reasonably broad palette of options to consider, giving them some freedom to decide just what best fits their particular circumstance. It makes no sense to constrain everyone to just one or two predetermined responses, making it much easier for the perps to counter them.

... or a condiment?

But does Canada allow its use on humans? At one time, I believe they didn't generally allow it, one could possess it for bears only. Whereas the U.S. EPA regulated its use against bears (a pesticide?), but not against humans. So the Spokane REI sold a pepper spray with two product sleeves -- one for use against bear, to show to Canadian Customs when crossing the border, and one for use against humans, to show to U.S. Customs when returning.

But times have changed, and sprays for bear are available here now.

You mean the case I posted back in June?

He was charged with kidnapping, second degree murder, and (hopefully, but unclear from various news reports) felon in possession of a firearm. He did many things very inconsistent with legal self defense, including shooting someone who was not making any known threats of serious injury, not calling 911 to report it, dragging the still-alive person into a field to be dumped and left for dead, then disposing of the thief's vehicle.

 

Pepper spray in generally not a good solution for catnapping, since most of the perps do their dirty work when they know that there is nobody else around, and civilian pepper spray is more of a point defense system - meaning that you would have to close the distance with the catnappers (they generally work in pairs or trios) which is not consistent with "self defense."

 

Try this!

 

Amazon link? Looks like Beatles White Album here.

 

found this cat article I'm comfortable sharing here.
Catalytic Converter Theft Skyrocketing Nationwide | National Insurance Crime Bureau
I read another today that put gen2 in the #1 spot with a significantly higher recycler value, followed by Honda Element - CRV and Ford F 250 - Toyota Tacoma due to easy access.

 

Another Prius cat thief didn't use a stable jack and safety supports:

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/man-trying-steal-catalytic-converter-killed-by-falling-car-deputies-say/QQS5QWHMTFH3BM6TUHW6OAXNEE/

 

Kinda hard to feel sorry for CRIMINALS when they earn there punishment.

 

I'd guess he came by car with an accomplice, who bolted, after the drop.