Cash for Clunkers

Greylar,

My sentiments exactly. I might be behind this if it had more stringent mpg requirements or did something to discourage people from buying big cars and SUVs when they don't need them. My first two cars were SUVs when I had no need for anything bigger than a Carolla, but gas was cheap and I could afford the bigger cars, so of course I preferred it. Take away the different levels of incentives and make it a flat mpg requirement and that would help more on the environmental side.

But as you said, I'll pay for it down the road, so I might as well take advantage of it now.

Speaking of goverment stimulus programs, I owe a sincere thanks to all of my fellow taxpayers out there for the $8000 refund that you funded on the purchase of my first house.

 

Well, Business Weeks article says this bill might be passed and signed by President Obama within a month or so.

"Cash For Clunkers Bill Treats Car Owners Badly"
Cash For Clunkers Bill Treats Car Owners Badly - BusinessWeek

The article mentions how stupid it is to have 18 mpg limit on the clunkers although the article failed to mention 50% savings on 18 mpg is not same as (much bigger than) 50% savings on, say, 25 mpg.

 

Good article.

Unfortunately, I noticed CNW mentioned in there. Why the hell does ANYONE in the media even bother asking them for anything? They have 0 credibility at all after their stupid "Dust to Dust" junk science "study" that refuses to die.

 

OK, I get it now. You are talking really, really old, burning oil so bad, that it's like you are fogging for insects.

 

They finally posted the bills introduced last week:
House Bill 2640
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Senate Bill 1135
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Durbin and Upton have both been going around to car dealerships promoting the "Drive America Forward Act". AKA Cash for Clunkers And have said that it could even be on the presidents desk in the next 30 days.

This looks to be the final versions
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This language for the trade in indeed makes this a clunker bill. It won't apply to most people simply wanting to trade up as the vehicle that gets traded in cannot be sold again and must be crushed or shredded. This program will be abused as people will be selling clunkers to individuals to trade in when tyhe vehicle has no true cash value except to get a government handout. I would rather see the government simply purchase clunkers as I don't think this will help the new car business. Who really goes and purchases a new vehicle when their existing vehiicle is good for nothing but shredding. This is another stupid waste of tax payer money

• • • (A) IN GENERAL- For each eligible trade-in vehicle surrendered to a dealer under the Program, the dealer shall certify to the Secretary, in such manner as the Secretary shall prescribe by rule, that the dealer--

• • • • (i) has not and will not sell, lease, exchange, or otherwise dispose of the vehicle for use as an automobile in the United States or in any other country; and

• • • • (ii) will transfer the vehicle (including the engine and drive train), in such manner as the Secretary prescribes, to an entity that will ensure that the vehicle--

• • • • • (I) will be crushed or shredded within such period and in such manner as the Secretary prescribes; and

• • • • • (II) has not been, and will not be, sold, leased, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of for use as an automobile in the United States or in any other country.

 

I would love to take advantage of this when my '10 shows up this summer but I suspect that most dealers will look blankly at me and tell me I'm crazy - no such program exists, or they will crank up the dealer admin fees to deal with the program. I want to think that my eco-sensitive self will take advantage of the program, but honestly, it will depend on the trade-in value versus the clunker cash.

Thanks for this thread - very interesting!!

 

My parents. Their 1991 Ford E150 van just broke the bolts holding the steering rack. (Rusted through due to 18 Michigan winters) While examining the steering rack my father also noticed the frame has some cracks in some high stress areas. This is the first major failure since they bought the vehicle.

They purchased it new in 1991 and have driven it for 340,000 miles. They have continued to drive it and maintain it for a decade and hundreds of thousands of miles after the blue book value was less than $1000 because it was still in good shape and reliable. My parents have saved tens of thousands of dollars buy keeping their van for almost 2 decades instead of trading every 2-5 years.

My parents are very interested in the Cast for Clunker program because it may allow them to get $4500 for their van. My father is planning on buying a new minivan that they will keep for a similar period of time.

 

If you are trading in a car that qualifies then it has to be shredded and cannot be resold. The dealer will NOT be allowed to resale this trade in. There is NO value for the dealer so the trade in value will be nothing and if they do run into costs they have to take that into consideration on the "deal". There will be fees involved for them to haul it to the junk yard and document that it was shredded and they need to recover that. Your incentive is that if you planned on a cash deal with no trade, you can go out and buy a clunker and get a voucher. This is a stupid idea.

 

Anyone notice that all the Honda and Toyota cars since the late 80's get 19 mpg or better from the EPA and don't qualify. and that many US cars do.

 

We have already been through this in this thread. There is no significant difference between the number of US cars and Japanese cars that would qualify. The vast majority of cars sold in the last 20 years DO NOT qualify no matter who made them. This is a program targeted at trucks and SUV's not cars.

http://priuschat.com/forums/2010-toyota-prius/60156-cash-clunkers-5.html#post845596 Post #87

 

The traded vehicle does have value to the dealer. It has value as scrap metal that should cover most if not all of the cost of paperwork and transportation to a recycling center.

The voucher system will drive customers to the dealership. Do doubt any dealer that chooses not to participate will not see much business.

You can't just go buy a clunker to trade in. This is specifically banned by the bill. From the House version:

"(7) the term `eligible trade-in vehicle' means an automobile or a work truck (as such terms are defined in section 32901(a) of title 49, United States Code) that, at the time it is presented for trade-in under this section--

(A) is in drivable condition; and
(B ) has been continuously insured consistent with the applicable State law and registered to the same owner for a period of not less than 1 year immediately prior to such trade-in; and
(C) has a combined fuel economy value of 18 miles per gallon or less;

 

My thoughts on this:

1) Most dealers are not in the "junk" business so the value of scrap is insignificant. Dealers that don't even want to do paperwork on a deal because they are not making money won't want to make $200 towing a car to the junk yard and getting a check for scrap metal. Just won't interest many.

2) People that have been driving a car that is only good for scrap are not the same people going out to buy new cars. This might help the small used car businesses.

3) The 1 year ownership will exclude people (like me) that could go out and purchase a vehicle to scrap but it also excludes the people that can afford to go out to buy a car to scrap thus these junkers will stay on the road.

 

This I could go for - from bad to "as good as currently exists". The current 20/22 MPG combined for the 'new' vehicle is CR@P. Any vehicle new or old (ESPECIALLY new) that only gets 22 MPG combined should be levied a pollution assessment every year when it is registered. The only exception would be REAL commercial vehicles (NOT H2s designed to get a commercial vehicle waiver for CAFE purposes by virtue of their GVW).

I'm not wild about the 28 MPG combined voucher either since it doesn't even approach the LOW end of 'good' (Altima, Camry and Fusion hybrids). Yeah, if you toss a 17 MPG for a 28 MPG it is a big gain, but to me, it is not adequate to justify a reward. Auto makers CAN produce mid-sized vehicles with > 30 MPG combined that are not underpowered, etc; they just DON'T. Consumer demand and all that you know. I'm pretty sure consumers are not demanding that their new vehicle gets only 22 MPG combined.

How about we modify it to be "EPA combined on new car/truck is at LEAST double the old vehicle, triple for old vehicles getting 14 MPG or less". I can (barely) suck up an H2 owner getting a bribe if it means the H2 is crushed and replaced with a vehicle getting a lousy 20 MPG.

 

Yes they are. How many time a year do dealerships do "Push, Pull, or Drag" promotions when they will have you a fixed amount for any vehicle with a title? Also the majority of trade-ins are not sold by the dealership they are traded to. That dealer keeps the best vehicles and the rest roll onto transporters and are shipped to wholesale auctions. The "clunkers" from the government would be no different except the final destination would be a scrapyard instead of an auction.

Lots of relatively new vehicles on the road today are worth less than $4500.

The KBB trade-in values:
2000 Ford Explorer 4x4 -------- $2000
2000 Chevy Blazer 4x4 -------- $2175
2000 Dodge Durango 4x4 ----- $2700
2000 Land Rover Discovery --- $1350

These are all valued for vehicle is good condition with 125K miles. I know many people that drive vehicle of this age that buy new cars. There is a big difference between cars that have little monetary value and those that are actually ready to be scrapped. I can see an owner of a 2000 Explorer deciding it is time to buy a new vehicle if the federal government is willing to give him $2500 more than what the dealer normally would.

Yes it will. I'm getting the feeling you don't like this program because you can't take advantage of it. I can't either but I still think getting 15 mpg SUV's off the road is a good idea.

 

They're singing my song. I have a 1998 Explorer with 92k miles. The need for the larger vehicle is gone (got rid of the boat). We held off replacing it as it's very nice not to have a car payment, but our other car has taken the brunt of the driving hence the low mileage on the Explorer. We started the search for a new car when we heard about the program. Yes, my Prius on order is to replace the Explorer. One emotional benefit of this program is that it offsets my angst at paying MSRP.

 

Looks like it is going to get passed. "Sources" have said that if it passes in the senate (possibly next week) there is an agreement that would mean little resistance in the house.
Senate Poised to Pass 'Cash for Clunkers' Bill - Political News - FOXNews.com

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Basically it looks like it will get attached to the tobacco regulation bill that already passed the house. And the house has agreed to the clunkers amendment if it passes in the senate. Finally... since the tobacco bill passed a test vote today 84 -11, it looks like it could be on the Presidents desk in just a couple weeks.

 

Here is a copy of the senate version Drive America Forward Act Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress). I think this is the version that would get passed with the tobacco bill (H.R. 1256). The senate bill will give anyone who bought a vehicle as far back as March 30 a chance to take advantage of the voucher program.
What if you purchased a better mpg vehicle before this bill passed but did not trade in your "clunker" (that would have qualified) are you still eligible for the voucher? The way the bill is worded makes me think only people who traded a "clunker" in the past will get to go back to the dealer for a voucher not the ones who chose to keep their "clunkers". Remember though, the people who kept their "clunker" would still have to show they owned the vehicle for a year may still be eligible....?

 

[/quote]Yes it will. I'm getting the feeling you don't like this program because you can't take advantage of it. I can't either but I still think getting 15 mpg SUV's off the road is a good idea.[/quote]

Yeah, just a sore Republican who never gets any tax breaks or other Obama handouts. This program is pure BS. Time will prove it.