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Car knocking, changed spark plugs, problem persists

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Jacob Bonner, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    So I replaced the ignition coils and - voila - problem solved. I've never heard my engine start up and idle so smoothly. After months of dreading a head gasket repair, this has made my year. Fingers crossed that it'll keep running smoothly. Also, today I replaced the water pump and thermostat. Unfortunately, I forgot to replace the coolant temperature sensor before filling up with coolant. :oops: I'm not getting any codes related to that, so I'm just going to leave it as is for the moment. I've bled air out of the system in maintenance mode, and plan on taking it for a test drive tomorrow.

    I also checked my oil catch can after 2 months of being installed, to find it nearly completely full. It was mostly liquid with a small amount of oil on top. The liquid smelt like gasoline, however. After fixing the misfire issue, perhaps this won't persist.

    20190525_151435 (2).jpg
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    How many miles was that accumulating?
     
  3. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    Sorry to be debbie downer, but if you are losing coolant, I highly doubt that new coil packs fixed your problem.
     
  4. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    @Mendel Leisk, probably about 2,500 miles since I installed the OCC.

    @The Critic, well.. still not a single misfire in 3-4 days. My engine is running at about 180-185 Fahrenheit as opposed to 195-198, so I'm happy about that. I'm not sure if I've 'lost' any coolant since the coils & water pump/thermostat replacement. The level did drop a little, the morning after I bled the air from the system, so I'm going to attribute it to that. Seeing as how just one week ago it death rattled any time the ICE came on (red light, stop sign, driveway, etc.), I'm happy with the improvement. All I can say is I hope you're wrong! (y)
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    What area of USA are you? If your coming out of a cold/humid winter I can see it, but that's a lot of custard in the OCC, might be some coolant in the mix, tho not certain.

    Have to say it looks yummy, lol.
     
  6. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    I'm in North Carolina. Today we had a lovely 102° Fahrenheit/38 Celcius. The misfiring was actually at its worst when we were having 90 degree F weather, though I'm almost certain the warm temps weren't the reason (that was when I swapped the coils around the first time).
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    OCC custard is what I get in winter, lots of rain and humidity. Summer, it's a lot less, and mostly oil. Just wondering if there's some coolant in your mix.
     
  8. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    How often do you have to empty your OCC?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Mine's mounted on the lower cross beam, maybe a foot below the intake manifold. It has a tap on the bottom, and that's the most practical way to drain it. I'm draining it every 6 months, while doing oil changes (I take the engine underpanel off, so everything's open. The interval I'm following for oil changes in (Canadian) 6 months or 8000 kms, and the months are first for us, by a long shot: km's is 4500~ at most, say 3000 miles. I do one change in April, one in October. The April change is by far the most, maybe 80~100 cc, more custard-like. The October change is maybe 20~30 cc, mostly oil.
     
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  10. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    I've returned to cylinder misfire hell. As I said a couple posts ago - I replaced the ignition coils, thermostat, and water pump. After that, for almost a month, my misfires had cleared up and my engine was running perfectly. This was an immediate and dramatic fix. However, as of maybe a week ago, my misfires have returned with a vengeance (specifically cylinder 2 - which is the first one that went before as well).

    I tried swapping the 2nd cylinder coil with my old ones, one by one (assuming that I had at least one or two of the old batch that were still in tolerable shape). If anything, the problem worsened, so I put the new back in. At this point it feels like my engine could fall apart at any given moment. I'm almost afraid to drive it. I'm going to school and work though, so I have no choice but to drive it.

    I would have thought since it cleared up immediately after replacing the coils, that it was them that was causing the problem. Not sure why the problem has returned after 3 weeks... I would revisit the blown head gasket theory, but I haven't lost much coolant out of the reservoir - not noticeably anyway. The oil catch can did contain *some* oily water, up to about 1/10 of the container, after about 2 weeks - not really a whole lot.. I have no idea what to expect from the OCC, so I'm not sure if that's normal or not. If it were the head gasket, wouldn't it evaporate out of the exhaust?

    At this point I don't know what to do other than just replace the head gasket and hope it fixes the problem...
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Back in May you show the OCC full to the brim?

    Do a compression and/or leak-down test. Considering the unusual "cranking" process when starting, maybe go directly to leak-down. I've never had one done, but I gather it can diagnose what's happening quite effectively.

    Simply pressurize one cylinder at a time and watching for bubbles in the coolant reservoir?

    Seems like everyone reporting here has a head gasket failure between cylinders one and two, fwiw.

    That's maybe a healthy fear. Continuing to use the car, it might escalate from failed head gasket to bent piston, hole through the crankcase.
     
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  12. The Critic

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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Leak-down will still help diagnose that? You pressurize a cylinder when it's at TDC of compression stroke, when everything "should" be sealed. If air is leaking to an adjacent cylinder you'll hear/feel air coming out of the throttle body?
     
  14. Swirjo

    Swirjo New Member

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    Have you check if the coolant leaking to the spark plug where the cylinder coil having the miss fire? I have the issue with the missfire 4 months ago and Used a bars leaks to stop the coolant leak. The issue stop and my coolant did not drop for a while but it did little in 1 month. But after 4 months 10,000 miles it started to drop more in a month. I don’t know if I should try and repeat it. I did clean the throttle body and egg pipe after I use the bars leaks 4 months ago.
     
    #74 Swirjo, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  15. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    Worst case scenario occurred the other day. I got in the car and the engine refused to start. Master warning light came on, along with a "Hybrid system malfunction. Stop car" (paraphrased) warning message. I had it towed to the Toyota dealership and they've taken a look at it and they said the blown headgasket has allowed coolant into the engine for so long that it has reached the "little block" (whatever that means - this message was relayed to me from the receptionist from the service technician). Essentially, the service tech is saying that the entire engine needs to be swapped. I've yet to be given an estimate, so I'm not sure exactly what I'll do. What would be a reasonable estimate to expect and is it even worth it or should I just trade it in?

    It's a 2012 with 174k-ish miles. I've only driven it for about 35k miles/3 years and payed about $7k for it originally. This is not exactly what I was hoping for out of a Prius. I really have no intention of buying another 3rd Gen, and honestly may not buy another Prius until the 4th Gens become cheaper. 3rd gens are shit. I really should have had it fixed before now though. It's had a blown head gasket since February. I planned on doing it myself because I didn't have the money to have it fixed by someone else. But the love of my life died 4 months ago and honestly I stopped giving a shit. Between being a full-time student and working two part-time jobs, I just couldn't find the time to do it.
     
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  16. mikey_t

    mikey_t Active Member

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    Hey Jacob, I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope life gives you a little break soon.

    In regards to the prius, from what I've seen around here the cost of an engine rebuild at the dealership is around $4000 while buying a used low mileage engine and having that swapped in is around $3000. I think you should trade it in and get something like a used Corolla until 4th gens get cheaper. I'd bet within the next few years 2016s should be found for really good deals and any maintenence on a used Corolla ought to be relatively inexpensive (and easier to DIY).
     
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  17. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    After giving it some thought, I think I'm going to look into buying a 2nd Gen Prius for about $5k-$6k. They seem to have far less problems than the 3rd Gen. Only consideration I can think of is the aging hybrid battery. I would look at a Corolla but I've grown too accustom to the hatchback, and camping on a fold-out mattress when I travel. Hybrids (and specifically Prius') are just too damn convenient for that.

    In the meantime, I'm going to look into buying a shop crane and swapping the engine on the 3rd Gen Prius myself and then selling the car. That seems like the most cost effective way of getting myself out of this mess. Hopefully within the next few years, as you say, the 4th Gens will be cheaper and I can trade in the 2nd Gen for that.

    I guess this entire post will be a warning to anyone who considers buying a 3rd Gen. Buy at your own risk. (n) .. My parents also own a 3rd Gen and have started having early signs of the death rattle within the last few months.
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why not replace the head gasket, and keep it?
     
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  19. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    $5-6000 for Gen 2 Prius? That's twice what it should be. Gen 3 is better.
    Cheaper to repair what you have and keep it. Once the head gasket is fixed and the egr system is cleaned,
    it will be a great car.
     
  20. Jacob Bonner

    Jacob Bonner Member

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    I've driven it with a blown head gasket for around 9 months now, with a constant coolant leak. The service tech at Toyota claimed that simply replacing a head gasket wouldn't be enough to salvage the engine. I have no way of verifying if he's telling the truth, but from what I've heard of head gasket failures, I can believe it for 9 months of driving it like that. I guess I could have it towed elsewhere for a second biased opinion, but I'm not sure I would be better off. I would open it up and take a look myself, but rebuilding an engine (if it's worse off than just the head gasket) seems to be a much more daunting task than simply swapping the engine, for someone on the DIY level like myself.

    However, after mulling it over, I might just keep the car after all. I'm looking into buying a 4th Gen engine with low miles to swap with the current engine. Replacing the head gasket on the current engine would seem like the simpler and cheaper thing to do, but from everything I've read about 3rd Gen engines, I'm not sure I want to risk dealing with them anymore. If it's as the service tech says, I may be simply postponing my mechanical troubles. That's a lot of time off from studies to just push doomsday back to another month. I'm not sure. I'm always open to suggestions.
     
    #80 Jacob Bonner, Oct 28, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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