CAN-VIEW (Recovered)

I'm sorry. I'm away from Winnipeg at the moment and don't have the usual office crowd to "proof" my replies and check for obvious errors.

I was trying to caution not to rely too much on any results from a hobbyist scope or non-specialized test equipment. As CAN is a modern and fast industrial control bus, you need specialized - in other words very expensive - test equipment to uncover what the messaging is doing.

We use pretty expensive Agilent VSA (Vector Signal Analyzer) and "deep" memory scopes, like the 6000, at work because we're expected to look for glitches in those fast industrial buses. When you consider that the 6000 is capable of triggering on events under 500 ps, that's fast.

What is already present at the CAN/OBD port under the dash has been buffered/filtered, so as such is like an interpolation. For the vast majority of instances, this is all that is needed. Complex debugging will probably never take place in a shop environment.

If you use a scope that some of us could actually afford - or at least try to justify - that scope would most likely have maximum threshold of 50-200 MHz, memory depth under 500 kpts, and detection measured in ms, not ps. Put another way, you'd see the forest, not the individual trees.

 

Um, what that guy said.

Dave, you are welcome to "proof" all future submissions. Especially when it comes to detecting "jabber" mode and turning it off.

 

actually i thought your explanation was facinating and it reinforced my original position that i would leave the "de-canning" process to the experts.

 

OK I suspected as much. I am also suspicious that the ScanGage further "degrades" the over all information level by the sampling rate. I see differences between ScanGage and the MFD in MPG and suspect it is due to sampling rate. Is there, will there be a way to run the ScanGage with the CAN View at the same time and compare the two? All you techies reply? I will help you do your next appendectomy at home!! Really. They let medical student do appendectomies, or at least they did.

 

my thoughts on buffering of data is that Toyota probably uses buffered data for computer input. If it was at the ms/us level I'm sure that the computer wouldn't fit in the hatch if it was to provide nice smooth control of the car. Buffering provides smoother transitiions from one state to another. As for hdrygas noticing the scangauge not reading the same as the MFD well that's the time lag of buffering being shown on the screen. There appears to be about 1/2 second lag between whats going on with the ICE and what shows on the MFD, this is probably what the computer uses to calculate what to send to the OBD11, DLC3 connector as it's crunching all the data on the buss.

 

The HV ECU is directly connected to the inverter using many many control wires, so it can control the power phasing precisely, using the sensors installed on the motors sending their signals directly to the HV ECU. The CAN is not used to send that kind of control to the inverter.

Howevever, a scanner hooked into the CAN can request data about the power being send or received from the MGs. Granted, it is a slow sample compared to the microsecond changes that actually occur, but we are only looking for averages, say on the order of 1/10 second, maybe slower.
However, what does get communicated over the CAN is brake control. The skid ECU asks the HV for regenerative braking, the HV ECU returns the results, the Skid uses the friction brakes for any deficiencies. At a 500Kb data rate, I am sure this is sufficient.

However, as I was mentioning, the serial output of the CAN-VIew I am sure is deficient and drops CAN packets, since the serial output data rate is much slower than the CAN data rate. Even Attila's solution has the CAN232 filter out data. Only the USB converter would be able to capture every single message.

 

there is nothing wrong with buffered info... that makes it easier for us to read and interpt. after all, buffering is very common... your mouse movement is buffered and buffered info still shows trends which is all we really want anyway right?

 

Hello all...
Just finished my Can View V2 install, it works great.. even managed to plug in my laptop (with the help of a VGA scan converter --- note: some of them have raw RGBS output, this is VERY useful in the case of Can-View...)
Add to this one of the integrated mapping packages (delorme steet atlas 2005, mappoint, microsoft streets, etc..), and you'll have GPS on the cheap (less than $100.)

Of course, MAME on the Prius is just the coolest thing in the world!!! Just don't drive with it!

Does anyone know where to get SCART connectors in the US?
If I ever get around to running cable for a back up camera, it would be nice to be able to do this without modifying the can view.

 

No one really understands PCHEM.

 

Tripp,
My favorite PChem teachers' quote when a student asks a question:
"That's intuitively obvious to the casual observer"
One of four questions on my PChem final:
"How much power is required from an 880nm laser to levitate a 0.5 gram, black, 0.25cm diamter disk in a vacuum"
Sorry, I digress...

Has anyone else noticed we're on page 18 for this topic? I'll be ordering a Can-View after Christmas.

 

Only if calculus is intuitively obvious. As for LASER we talked abut it in a theoretical sense, but in my time that is what Post Doc fellows were playing with. In Physics we used mechanical calculators to do our labs, and yes we all had slide rules on our belts.

 

HELP! (yes folks I'm serious enough to put it in capital letters)

Now that CAN-view appears to function in all packages of the 2004/2005, the issue becomes the 2006 models. Mine is just 14 months old, so I can't afford an upgrade.

With all but the base 2006 model having the new MFD and a back-up camera, my big question is, how different is it? Has anybody got access to a new MFD to see what it looks like on the back (photograph?) Has anybody got access to a 2006 service manual showing MFD (and camera) connectors? (Toyota doesn't allow Canadian owners access to the on-line tech manuals)

any help much appreciated.

 

Norm, why don't you PM Galaxee, her husband is a Prius Technician and might be able to help...

 

..

Do a serch on Ebay for the scart connectors, they came wired and plain vanilla ready for your spaghetti. Good luck
I'm in the path of completing mine after waiting for my 3rd MFD replacement under warranty exchange <_<

 

might want to PM ifixem... he is a Prius mechanic in olympia...

 

I thought I had better clarify this. While CAN-view (finally) works in all version of the 2004/2005 Prius, both with and without NAV, it will not work with the 2006 Prius: they have changed both the MFD connector and the NAV connectors.
It may be a while before these matching custom connectors become available.

For those interested, the new 2006 standard rear-view camera delivers ordinary NTSC direct to the new MFD, bypassing the RGB port entirely.

 

First another clarification in view of a query from a PriusChat member: CAN-view is not an OBD2 reader. It will not display and clear trouble-codes. It is designed as an information display gathering data off the CAN-bus and presenting them in various formats on the Prius MFD. If you want to clear trouble codes, I would suggest you look into the ScanGauge

For those interested, I have just added new Beta test code to the download page on the CAN-view web-site http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/Download.html
This adds MG1 and MG2 to the parameters that can be displayed as user functions, as well as making all graphs user selectable.

I've seen the equation quoted wrongly elsewhere for the 2004 Prius. Using the analysis by NERL where they dismantled a Prius power split and documented it, the gear teeth count gives this new equation for the 29kW MG1 (it can't be the 18kw quoted: the motor is spec'd at 50kw and the battery at 21kw so the balance of 29kw has to come from MG1)

MG1 rpm = (3.39 x engine RPM) - (2.60 x MG2 RPM)

MG1 is rated at 10,000 rpm. I've seen momentary overshoots of 2.5% (10,250rpm) When you consider what is happening when you suddenly accelerate from standstill, which is where MG1 peaks, controlling the maximum rpm of all those chunks of rotating metal represents some pretty amazing engineering on Toyota's part.

 

WTG Norm!! keep it coming