CAN-VIEW (Recovered)

The latest Pioneer software uses TeleAtlas maps, which have some voice navigation limitations vs. the Navteq maps used in the Prius Nav and the older versions of Pioneer software.. Basically, the difference is that the Navteq-based nav can provide voice guidance anywhere where a road appears on the map, while the TeleAtlas-based software can only provide voice guidance for "major roads", although it will still calculate and plot a route for you on the map display.. The Toyota nav is very well integrated and I feel has a nicer user interface, however the Canview will do a pretty good job with the Pioneer AVIC with its touch-screen interface.

In terms of map coverage, they're pretty similar, however bear in mind the typical lag time for map updates- depending on your area, even getting this year's CDs may only have last year's maps at best, and at worst, maps from several years back.. The TeleAtlas maps have much more POI data (the Pioneer maps are divided into two double-layer disks (~18Gb of data) vs. a single DL disk (~9 Gb of data) for the Toyota nav), but you can only display a limited selection of POIs at a time with the Pioneer.

The Toyota nav definitely has better quality software- it may not be the greatest nav software, but it's clean and consistent throughout; If you have used the Pioneer units with both the old Navteq based software and the TeleAtlas based software, you'll notice many areas where it's painfully evident that they grafted on the new TeleAtlas front-end onto the old Navteq-based code.. One of the areas that might be evident even to new users is the variation in the voice- the old Navteq software had a male and female option; the TeleAtlas has only a female voice, and some prompts are delivered by the voice from the old software which is a reasonably pleasant neutral voice, and some by a different voice with a somewhat inconsistent accent- it sounds vaguely Britannic in some prompts and a southern drawl in others, and a strange combination of the two with yet other prompts.. There are also still some minor bugs in the Pioneer software- for example, one of the features user-definable backgrounds for the menu screens, which was attractive at first because I created a very nice Prius background for it, but they never stay set- they'll revert back to the default background at some point- this has been an unsolved problem since the Navteq-based software, and the manual even mentions it by saying if the background reverts to the default, you just change it again, and again, and again....

On the other hand, factory-refurbished Pioneer navs can be found on Ebay and other places for as little as $300-400 if you look hard enough, which is *less* than many of the standalone portable units from Garmin and others.. Although the software quality may not be quite up to par, Pioneer is nonetheless quite good in terms of maintaining backward compatibility- the newest software runs fine on the oldest units, although some features may not be available (on the other hand, some of the older units also support DVD playback, which was removed from newer units, but the software continues to support playback if your hardware supports it.)

I'm in Canada, so unless Toyota Canada decides to offer different packages, I'd still be going the Pioneer nav route if I got a new car.. Even if we had access to the US packages, I'd still be leaning towards the Pioneer nav because I don't like the fact that you have to buy the poorly engineered JBL sound system to get nav..

 

Here's something to consider with NAV: The nav I believe also supplies video for the maintenance and calendar functions, since you have to press the I Agree screen to get to them, if you haven't been presented with it yet this trip. The maintenance and calendar are accessed through the Info menu.

But then, all the CanView has to do is detect when the user has left CanView and relinquish control of RGBS to the device(s) behind it.

 

It is alive.
h34r:

 

I've had several PMs and emails asking how hard it is to install a CAN-view. I've posted a provisional set of installation instructions and photos at http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/install.html
When the first few customers report back, I will use their comments (praise?criticism?) to modify the install instructions. It's really not that hard and mostly common sense (or is that one of those oxymorons?)

 

OK, I read some of the early posts on this thread and read a tonne of extremely technical information. The looks really cool but what's the application? I can see the need for engine temp if you're going to be putting in a radiator block. What are some other applications of the information that this device makes available? How is it better than a ScanGauge? My apologies if I missed this somewhere else, there's just so many posts!

 

The scantool can't provide any information on the HV batttery or engine out put in KW or HP or current draw on the HV side or battery temp etc. Also the interface of the scantool is small compared to the MFD size readout from the CAN-view. If your interested in how a Prius works this is another tool to use to get that information.

 

As pointed out by Frank, the Scangauge only provides basic vehicle data, it does not provide any feedback on Hybrid operations. The Canview is able to display information related to all the hybrid aspects (eg M/G values, hybrid battery SoC, charging rates, etc). I find that this all this extra feedback from the vehicle helps me obtain improved mileage, and also gives me confidence that everything in the vehicle is happy.

Besides the small display, the Scangauge is also a separate box that must be mounted on your dash somewhere, and its aesthetics are not that great, so it does spoil the clean look of the Prius dash.. The Canview on the other hand has it's display integrated into the vehicle MFD- larger fonts, full color, instantly visble bar-graph displays, touch-screen menus instead of having to memorize the clumsy button-press sequence user interface of the Scangauge).

The Canview also functions as an interface to aftermarket navigation units (currently Pioneer units are supported).. Finally, if you're a hobbyist or experimenter, the Canview provides an interface to the MFD so that you can create your own data/computer/video displays *with* touch-screen access... In short, this is everything the Coastal "Viewtech" promised and more, and unlike Coastal's vaporware, Canview is available and shipping now! The only thing not included is an audio interface, and those are available from many different sources..

 

I've had a scan gauge for a while, and switched over to the can view last night.

The main applications for me that are lacking in the scan gauge are:

1 EV mode indicator
2 Battery Current
3 Battery Temperature

I have a radiator block, but either measures the engine temperature.

The display on the can view is nice, instead of another box on the dashboard.
The battery temperature will help me adjust the climate control mainly the fan speed, to help the battery get to proper temperature and therefore best economy.

The current shows me more about how to brake using only regen, and how much I can accelerate before making the engine go on, also for better economy.

And I like having the bar graphs, for some things, instead of just the scan gauge numbers.

And the engine temperature is critical to everyone that wants good economy in the winter! Radiator block or no! You use it to see when the engine is warm enough and you can turn on more cabin heat for yourself without killing your mpg.

Then the battery voltage readout checking is just as important as changing your oil. If your battery starts to fail you want to know about it early don't you? Even in regular car's I've had alternators fail and kill my battery before the idiot light ever came on to warn me! Instruments are important.

 

Regarding the can view installation. It was pretty easy till I dropped a bolt! Had to disassemble a bit extra to retrieve it.

Overalll it was way easier than putting my wire through the firewall, installing the EV button, installing B-Quiet in the doors, installing my back up distance sensor in the bumper, or most any other car project I've done so far on the Prius.

You only have to remove two bolts and two screws. Everything else snaps off and I left all cables plugged in. Instructions were clear on what to unsnap first.

 

already posted this on the other scanview thread, but i just installed mine. although the install sounds challenging, it was actually very easy. took me about a half hour of real work, but about an hour in time because i didnt read the instructions ahead of time and had to go look at the color version (i had printed black and white version and there were too many color references added the author) while doing it.

i am familiar with other scan tools like Franks and i like this one much much better. having it full screen on the MFD is much nicer. also the user programmable screen is a great touch (so much information to look at!~!)being able to put in your most desired parameters from each screen is excellent. (thanks Frank!! i understand you are the cause of this)

i will probably be posting a lot about SCANVIEW in my blog as i learn the ins and outs of it. well worth the money i paid

 

With 2 threads active, I'll respond here to the question you raised in the other thread.
With so many posts, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't time for 'CAN-view: the movie'
Any way I will try to expand the descriptions I've done in one fixed location at www.hybridinterfaces.ca But a quick note here:
Some displayed items (text or graph) are indeed self explanatory (like battery voltage, current, battery temperature, state of charge, ICE temp, fuel flow, gas tank capacity) others less so. For items like maximum charge and discharge currents, for example, because Toyota won't tell us what they are, I am having to make some assumptions. If someone finds my assumptions are wrong and can show why, I'll be happy to include changes to the code.
But these seem fairly logical. You can see the battery current displayed as part of a CAN message, but I don't think this is an absolute value, rather a % of the maximum charge and discharge. I think the battery ECU sets these values to protect the battery. You can see them change as you drive, for example the discharge limit may be set at 90 amps when you first start, but it rises (at least for me) to a maximum of 125 amps within a few miles. Now that maximum 125 amps corresponds to a heavily loaded battery voltage of ~165 volts, for a total power O/P of 125 X 165 =20.6Kw which is ~28HP (which incidentally is what Toyota claim for maximum battery assist, which I take as confirmation that my numbers are probably close)
I am open to suggestions for all currently displayed parameters and strongly hope someone out there will tell us about new CAN parameters which may be of general interest. (Any Toyota engineers reading this, hint, hint?)
I'll try to update the descriptions of all items on the web-site tomorrow.
Norm (eflier)

 

one thing i noticed was that you can reset the data so the min and max displays a range achieved in a selected time period. useful to correlate data if you are looking for a reading in the middle of a trip.

ok, maybe i need to study the data a bit more first. there is probably a correlation in the numbers but without the ability to chart and graph instaneous resul;ts that would be tough.

also noticed that in setup you have the option to select MG1 or MG2 and "manl" or "rev??" i tried all combos and didnt see an obvious change...any ideas on that?

also i have never been a proponent of topping off the tank and i was very pleased to see that the tank reading was at 97% after filling up before going to Issaquah for my RC racing club. (about 55 miles). the tank was at one new bar and the SCANVIEW said i was at 20% which was about right since i had 460 miles @ 51 mpg (both MFD and pump). i drove about 15 mins down the freeway and checked the tank reading, it was 95% so i reset the gauge and the max went to 95%. i happened to check it again on the way home and the maximum had gone back to 100% although the tank now said 85%... is this proof positive that the tank gauge needs work?

has anyone used the tank readings near the end of the tank to check for the accuracy at say 5%? with the trip i was taking i wasnt willing to get gas anywhere else. i will be checking this out closely.

 

as low as I've taken it is to 9% and I had 60 miles of freeway in front of me so I gassed and within 3 minutes it was at 100%. Since she had been using the car for a couple of weeks before that and her mileage is quite low (route taken) I can't give you a mpg/L per hundred klick readout. If I remember correctly it was at 7.7 liter per hundred and my trip took it down to 5.3 36.6 Imperial 30.5 USG start and 53.3 44.4 at the time I fueled up.

 

your looking at RGB not MG in the setup screen that has to do with the feed from the CAN-view with the feed from the DVD and back up camera feed. On the base CAN-view that function is not available, that's why nothing happens when you toggle it.

 

OOOHHH...rg, mg...whatever

 

You guys might want to check out Attila's program, and his note on his website. He has played with the fuel guage output, and has found that there is quite a bit of bounce in the numbers that have to be smoothed out.

 

Does CAN View display inverter tempature?

 

Very nice! Makes me wonder why Toyota didn't just equip all Prius cars from the factory like that. All it would need is just one more target box on the screen to drill-down.

Your CANBus adaptor looks very similar to the CANBus Board Support Packages we develop and test on at work.

 

If the MFD requires RGBS as an input, wouldn't it be possible to use the VGA output of a MacMini to feed it, provided the MacMini is commanded at 60Hz vertical / 15.75 KHz horizontal ?

That would allow among other things using the MacMini as the platform for a GPS-based NAV program; then the same Mac Mini could also be the platform for a truly flexible monitoring system (even eventually commanding - like a cruise control optimizing fuel consumption). Leisure-wise the MacMini could also play DVDs or MP3s.

A great feature of the CAN-View is its ability to provide touchscreen XY data; this could be the primary IO feature for a MacMini-based control/monitoring system.

I posted simalar ideas on the Yahoo MiniscannerIII group, then in PMs to Eflier, Attila & others.

Any takers ?

I don't want to undermine Norm's efforts, actually I think I'll probably buy one of his CAN-View 2 devices. If however if could be used as a bridge to a PC plantform, can you imagine all that could be achieved with such a platform ?

BTW, is it really true that the native resolution of teh Prius MFD is only 400x234 ? If so I won't wory about the detour via NTSC if my above RGBS idea is not workable (because NTSC is inherently limited to 640x480 at best).

 

Not at present, but if someone knows which CAN msg ID and byte is the inverter temperature, then I could easily add that to the CAN-view display. What I'd really like to know as well are the msg pointers for all the MG1/2 data. Somone, somewhere knows this....