CAN-VIEW (Recovered)

eflier - Sep 15 2005, 06:49 PM

Whats stamped on the part is "-tyco 12410 <PBT>" (absolutely nothing else)
Its a white resin moulding, 2 rows each of 14 pins on 2.2mm pitch
with the rows 3.5mm apart. I also need the associated crimp contacts which are
for 0.024" square pins. (Toyota part comes without any pins)
Good luck!

 

eflier - Sep 15 2005, 07:13 PM

The Parallax CAN module would allow a Stamp processor to decode some CAN messages but with some severe speed restrictions. You'd also need a video text/graphics module and finally an AVC module (which isn't available for Stamp) so thats really the main problem. Hope this answers your question!

 

DanMan32 - Sep 16 2005, 11:00 AM

Then I don't understand what you don't understand.
Perhaps Attila's 'decoder' will help you understand, as well as the MarkII scanner for the classic Prius.
http://www.vassfamily.net/ToyotaPrius/CAN/cindex.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/Prius/M...MiniScanner.htm

Instead of displaying the car's data on a separate screen, this new device would display it on the screen all Prius already have.

 

200Volts - Sep 16 2005, 02:26 PM

Here is product that is a single board computer designed for use with CAN (built in) and has automotive LCD display options already written.

http://www.ultimodule.com/bin/site/templat...ltimodule-pane6

The Tyco connector stamped 12410 <PBT> appears to be a custom part for Toyota. The <PBT> is designating the type of white plastic used. The 2.2mm pitch and descrete wire-board mating indicates it is probably only available to Toyota. I don't know any people.

 

Frank Hudon - Sep 16 2005, 06:04 PM

could you not use ribbon cable connectors. they are on 2.2mm spacing for .025 square pins and there is only a difference of 1mm on the spacing of the rows. Just a though as I got some from R+P in Burnaby for pennies. If it would work you could use ribbon down to the controller box. Just a thought.

 

Frank Hudon - Sep 16 2005, 08:55 PM

Just checked R+P's catalogue and they do list a 14 pin IDC socket Part # IDCS14 for $1.22

 

mjb_2 - Sep 19 2005, 06:33 PM

i know this might sound lame because I am a laymen, but do anybody talk anything about taping in an RGB connector just to use the moniter, no controlls. I am wondering about maybe a mechanical switch. Sorry if I imbarass somebody with my laymenness, but I'm looking for a cheap way to tap in the screen. Problem is is I know just enough to be dangerous.

 

JoeBananas - Sep 19 2005, 07:20 PM

efiler,

Any chance you'd be willing to share your knowledge of the AVC-LAN protocol in the form of some sort of documentaion?

 

200Volts - Sep 19 2005, 07:27 PM

mjb_2
Do a search for brosnan related articles on RGB input to the MFD.

 

eflier - Sep 20 2005, 12:15 AM

JoeBananas, a slightly awkward question!

I've devoted 6 months to gaining my (limited) understanding of the AVC-LAN protocol. What I've learned I hope to apply to a number of directly related products. The same MFD video and touch screen techniques, for example, I'm currently trying to use to interface the Prius MFD to Pioneer's AVIC-88 navigation unit for those of us who either couldn't get or couldn't afford the factory Toyota version. Others have suggested making a simple unit to convert MFD touch screen data into laptop form.
So until I explore these avenues, I think it a little unreasonable to expect me to make all that hard-earned information freely available. So while I can sympathise, I don't think I can help at this time.

However, should I find that either production issues can't be resolved, or that there is only limited interest in any of these ideas, then at that time I may decide to publish rather than see all the effort wasted.

 

Frank Hudon - Sep 20 2005, 12:39 AM

nicely put!

 

_echo - Sep 20 2005, 01:47 AM

WOW!!! You've done a great job eflier, I've been waiting for coastal Dave's product since I got my prius! This is some very promising news. From what I understand about your design, you already have the option of adding an external RGB input..

FWIW, the old CGA monitors are standard NTSC with H/V sync outputs. In other words, it may be easier to hook an old CoCo3, or an Amiga 500 to the Prius... (How's that for old and new technology!)

Also, IIRC x-windows (*nix OSes) can be reconfigured on a lot of cards to output standard 15.75KHz/arbitrary vertical number of lines. As far as adding text, there are several microcontroller solutions, look in the back of nuts and volts, stuff like the BOB2, ezVid, etc. If it is really necessary. I could code a small FPGA to do something like this..

So, as far as interest is concerned, I think you'll find a LOT of it.. (count me in!)

It would be especially attractive if you have a 'raw' mode that can accept analog video (RGBS), and dump out touch screen coordinates over rs232-lvttl..

Any chance of adding in some audio inputs like what coastal dave was planning?

--echo

 

DaveG - Sep 20 2005, 02:27 AM

Sorry for the late posting - been a busy week

Here's some video I shot a few weeks ago of Norm's CAN-VIEW interface. He's made some additional changes since this version to include a metric/imperial conversion that don't show up in this video. I did a little bit of editing to take out some of the shaking video as we went over bumps around around corners and such

http://www.bcit-broadcast.com/temp_files_only/can_view-1.wmv

All in all, a very nice device - he did some really impressive engineering to pull this off!

Dave

 

cooldog - Sep 20 2005, 08:40

eflier,

If you want to make sales, go for the most general interface possible, i.e. build an interface box that takes a 15 pin VGA input (at the proper timing - do not try to convert), a stereo audio input, and provides a USB pointing device output from the MFD touchscreen. It has to work with a NAV-equipped Prius as well as non-NAV. It would help to add in a second audio and NTSC-video input too.

You can then add in optional software that takes the input from a CAN-USB or CAN-serial interface and replicates the displays that you already made.

What you've done so far is a heroic effort, but IMHO, won't sell enough to justify the overhead costs of getting it into production.

Whoever builds what I just described first gets my $$$. I'd pay $300 or so for it. Then I spend another $700 or so to build a nice mini-ITX carputer.

 

DanMan32 - Sep 20 2005, 08:42 AM

AVC-Lan is documented out there. Take a look at the thread 'suppressing all beeps', there's a good basic discussion on the protocol. The device ID's are documented in the Prius repair manual. The Lexus manual may have even more.

As for hooking up RGB, you could do that, but as stated earlier in this thread, you have to tell the MFD to be in a mode that uses it, and of course have the right signal on it, as the the MFD is not multi-sync like our monitors are.

 

c4 - Sep 20 2005, 10:59 AM

eflier, I can't seem to send you a PM.. I click the send, and it says that the message is sent, but nothing gets saved in my sent messages folder and you don't seem to get a copy either, so rather than fight with the system, I'll just post it on the open forum as the conversation has begun to drift in this direction anyways..

I had attempted to write to you several times about the possibility of licensing your software and technology. The open conversation had opened the possibility of a separate "hobbyist" product, which I would definitely be interested in in lieu of licensing..

Such a product should provide a means of creating simple X-Y color text displays and receiving X-Y touch screen input as well as NTSC video in (I re-iterate that VGA is not a requirement in my eyes as just about all current models of laptops come with a perfectly usable TV out that will work with any NTSC input- geez, I'm specifying product- can you tell that I'm a systems engineer in real life?). This product would be the basis of many home-built projects that could use the MFD for I/O (which is the reason I specified a means of creating simple text displays- most microcontroller boards do have several serial and digital I/O ports, but not many of them have any kind of video generator). I would quite willingly pay $400-500 for a product that just provided these basic features and nothing else. (if you happen to get a Pioneer AVIC interface working and are interested in a Beta tester, let me know, as I've got a Pioneer nav in my Prius (currently using IR remote control and external screen) and I'd be willing to pay for the hardware.

Coming back to the licensing- in the event that you are not able to bring a product to market, all your hard work should not be lost, but neither should you be obligated to give it out for free either. If you do manage to productize your work, I would be most interested in the "hobbyist interface" product as I have a Classic Prius and the CAN stuff is not currently useful to me, but I originally wanted to know you would be open to licensing the AVC-LAN registration and MFD I/O portions of your technology.

 

eflier - Sep 20 2005, 11:01 AM

Hi to Cooldog and Echo,

I don't want to get de-focussed while I'm still fighting the incompatible connector battle, but you've made me stop and think. The current CAN-VIEW has an analog RGBS option selected from the main menu page. I made it an optional small daughter board mainly because I didn't think there would be much interest considering the RGBS constraints. The idea people might be willing to use old' hardware or play with obscure video card set-ups didn't occur to me. But I shouldn't have written off keen Prius enthusiasts quite so easily.

As far as the touch data goes, I'm currently converting the Prius touch data into the encoded serial stream the Pioneer AVIC-88 needs to see, so once thats done, its a minor software change to also also output it in RS232 format. Bit more effort to add the RS232 hardware and find space for another DB9 connector, but possible. Again I'd assumed users would want a completed Windows RS232 or USB driver included which is beyond me, but if there's an interest in raw touch co-ordinates in just a simple serial format, then I'll probably do that. Maybe someone else would then write a Windows driver?

I'm focussing on the none-NAV equipped versions first. NAV equipped is easier from the software point of view, but requires different hardware and even more hard-to-get connectors to make it plug and play. Not much point in looking for those until I resolve the first connector issue. Doing this on my own has its drawbacks. I'd also need access to a NAV equipped Prius for testing. (This is Canada, remember?)
Finally, I haven't touched the audio. I know nothing about that side, so its a totally separate issue for which Coastal is probably the best bet.

If you think this is worth pursuing further, why not send me a PM?

 

eflier - Sep 20 2005, 11:44 AM

Hi C4, your post came in while I was replying to Cooldog and Echo and is in a similar vein. First I should mention what might not be generally known: the Classic Prius (which I also used to have) and the current Prius have some basic differences in the AVC-LAN. For example, there was a controller @1D8 in the Classic which handled dashboard signals which no longer exists. Also, devices like the MP3 hack use software which doesn't work with the current Prius. So I fear my unit is unlikely to work in the Classic without major changes. But to continue:

Your basic difference is you want it to accept 'common' NTSC rather than 'rare' RGB.I think there's two separate issue here. The first is accepting NTSC. The Prius only accepts RGB plus composite sync so it needs an NTSC-to-RGB converter. I've bought a couple of those, one from Taiwan which produced such a fuzzy display that I junked it immediately, the other is quite decent from 3W in the UK(CC2RGB converter) which was 59 pounds sterling. (http://www.threedoubleyou.com/otherconverters.htm) One look at the advanced chip design inside to get that clean output convinced me not to attempt to make my own. If I committed to accepting this as 'the' NTSC interface, I would have to add a European SCART connector to my unit to make it plug and play. So there's an extra cost to get acceptable NTSC.

The second issue is having a hobby input which creates 'simple X-Y color text displays'

Again, I have the BOBIII device from (http://www.decadenet.com/) which I have had outputting clean RGBs output to the Prius MFD via my box. it accepts serial input to create color text.Its in the form of a daughter PCB which would require a matching socket on my board, but this is also probably the best solution. Its a well-designed, well documented US product. Costs about US$99

So if you'll bear in mind other people may have different ideas about what is best, your ideal product might be my monitor board (which is probably going to be in the $299 area) modified to accept a socket for a BOBIII (for which they charge $99) and a panel SCART connector to accept a CC2RGB converter (for which they charge ~$110) That all adds up, maybe to the point of not being economic.If you've also read the other requests, do these change your approach in any way?

eflier

Thanks for your input

 

eflier - Sep 20 2005, 02:10 PM

Hi DanMan32, I always read your posts with interest.

you've posted a few good replies to this topic. Perhaps you can see from the few added today that its not clear what will suit the greatest number of people. I read the thread on suppressing all beeps but it doesn't have a usable conclusion. Perhaps I can add my thoughts? The Prius MFD doesn't create a beep when the screen is touched. So initially my CAN-VIEW monitor was 'beep-free' But then DaveG suggested beeps might be appropriate, so I looked into it. The device the touch data is sent to, in turn sends a beep request to the radio (@190) using this command stream:

wantbeep:db 1,90h,5,0,32h,29h,60h,1

where the last byte (1) is the only one which appears to affect the beep and is the length of the beep. 2 = a longer beep,3 lasts for 4 seconds (REALLY annoying) etc. 0 turns it off. So potentially, its possible to kill the beeps entirely by intercepting this string whenever it occurs and changing the last byte from 1 to 0. (You also have to change the accompanying parity bit, so the msg is acknowledged or else it would simply send the same command again., eventually deciding the device is broken and shutting it down)

That would need a dedicated AVC-LAN monitor so its not really a solution.
regards, eflier

 

DanMan32 - Sep 20 2005, 03:25 PM

That's exactly what was determined in that other thread. Since the HU or the JBL amp is the sound maker, it would have to be isolated from the rest of AVC, bridged by an AVC switch (talking in networking terms) where the switch would pass most packets except the packet, which from your determination can be passed but altered where the beep length would be set to 0. Probably would be easiest to do a store and forward switch so that you'd have time to reconstruct the parity. You might be able to do cut-through switching, but it would be tricky.