Calling truths here about 2008 lifetime

The study you cite has this restriction on it: "* With at least 2.0% of cars sold over 200,000 miles". Considering the millions sold, it may be that any given year of a Prius may not have qualified for the list yet. There are still a ton of lower mileage Prii on the road and for sale out there.

It also doesn't say whether not not the inquiries were made of the original owners. Many original owners are ditching the Prius early in anticipation of battery problems when the warranty is over. Second owners are seeing many of them go over 200,000 but they may not have been included in the study.

 

I would think there are a lot of old 200k+ Prii out there. 165k here...I see what I can do

 

My last two cars were totaled, due to accidents. The SUV's that were involved on the other end were patched up and driven again. I think that can help SUV's on that list survive over 200k miles. Any car can last over 200k miles- it's whether or not we want to pay what's involved to keep the cars running.

When buying a used ICE car, I was interested in two measurements- how long the ICE would last without a rebuild, and how long the tranny would last. I would not have some of those SUV's on my persona list using this criteria. And I think that Toyotas are still my best bet. I have a Honda, too, but I've gotten lucky with a model year and make that doesn't have tranny issues. Over at the Honda boards, there's a lot of anxiety over preventive transmission maintenance.

 

I'm new to prius and am a part time mechanic. I came from VW, Mercedes diesel land, old and newer ones. I've driven about 5 prius's in the last month , a 2014 , a 2004 with 139,000 miles on it, a 2008 with well over 200000 miles on it. Odo was broken. Another 2008 with 200000 miles on it , and my 2005 with 255,000 miles on it when i bought it. I've also had a lot of VW and mercedes with 150,000 to 240,000 miles on them.

My impression of the prius having driven them with high and low miles and see how they handle and drive is that they are some of the best cars ever built. With these high miles the interiors hold up, ball joints, tie rods, suspension all still good , all windows work, AC works . That is impressive for a car with 255,000 miles. Every owner has told me they never had any issues and only did routine maintenance. A 4000 battery pack every 200,000 miles is not a bad trade off to me for 50mpg.

A VW tdi will get you close to 50mpg but they come with timing belt changes every 80,000 miles, expensive german parts, and are more expensive to maintain. Mercedes is the same way.

I don't know why toyota didn't make the prius with a 3 cylinder diesel engine like the VW Lupo which is not a hybrid but gets almost 80 mpg . Five fuel-efficient cars you've probably never heard of | Autoweek . Maybe there are technical issues. It is still pitiful that we are getting the same fuel economy in a 2017 high tech hybrid as a 1980 VW golf diesel. But i digress.

 

1) Diesel is NOT clean. The Prius is about fuel efficiency and LOW emissions; diesel can NOT accomplish both.
2) Clean Diesel is an oxymoron like clean coal and light cigarettes (for the health conscious smoker).
3) In light of the recent VW diesel emissions scandal, even Europe is making moves to get away from the diesel.

 

Actually, I would say "clean <any fossil fuel>" is an oxymoron, even at 50 mpg. But seriously, between a "cleaner" diesel hybrid getting 75 or 100mpg vs a prius getting 50 mpg, you think the prius would be more environmentally friendly and produce less emmissions? Get real. Maybe it would have a little less tailpipe emissions, but with all the new emmissions tech on diesels now i doubt it. And throw 5% or 20% biodiesel in in the diesel and then see where it's at. I'd bet my mother earth on the diesel hybrid.

But we really don't even have to bet. Diesels Versus Hybrids | Worldwatch Institute there is one story that concludes a diesel running biodiesel is neck and neck with hybrid back in 2005 or 2006 before the latest emissions technology. I like how it concludes " Of course, within the next five years we could also see the introduction of hybrid diesel/electric vehicles, and when that happens the dominance of gasoline vehicles in the United States could be threatened. "

Ha fat chance of any real fuel saving cars being produced here. The powers that be will do anything to keep people burning as much oil and fossil fuel in this country no matter what the consequences. How else can you explain why fuel economy on a car hasn't improved since 1980? Why we don't have fuel saving public transportation systems and trains ? Why we don't have diesel hybrids running off clean renewable fuel?

Anyway , enough of that here nor there bs. The fact is emissions need to be measured in a full lifecycle or "Well to WHeel" at least . Alternative Fuels Data Center: Emissions from Hybrid and Plug-In Electric Vehicles So one's electric car is only zero emissions if you use solar or wind to charge it. But then what about emmissions in production of the car and battery? It's not just as simple as "Zero tailpipe emmissions are best" . You're prius probably is not cleaner than my VW tdi diesel running off 100% biodiesel or Waste vegetable oil or even 50% biodiesel.

Ok, I've told people for years even before this emmissions cheater story came out that the epa didn't calculate the total lifecycle emmissions and were being way to strict on the diesels and should have instead pushed the diesels to run off higher blends of biodiesel to support the renewable fuels industry and pushed car companies to make 100mpg diesel hybrids and get toward a more carbon neutral vehicle . They could have easily made exceptions for biodiesel and diesel hybrids and improved total emmissions instead of just clamping down on tailpipe emmissions.

One thing is for certain, if you wanted to get high mpg diesels off the road and hurt the biodiesel industry, the emissions rules set out in 2007 by our EPA sure were successful. Probably more successful than they could have imagined. Lol.

Either way, I love my high tech prius and i am tired of burning wvo and biodiesel is hard to find and I'm tired german engineering that always needs fixing Still though diesels really have the potential to be the greenest ICE cars there are simply due to the fact you can run 100% carbon neutral fuel in them and they get 20% to 40% better mpg. So don't knock them. It is stupid. For some reason we won't tap into the potential for renewable biodiesel we have. Algae ,namely ,has so much potential and they have known since 1996 . Pretty good presentation here on it. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42414.pdf

Dang, sorry the long post . Lol.

 

I agree with that sentiment overall.

Diesel is dying (for passenger cars).
You apparently are unaware of the latest news and trends around diesel.
China studying when to ban gasoline and diesel cars - Autoblog

France & the UK will be banning new gas and diesel cars from 2040 (23 years from now).
India and Norway will also be banning gas and diesel cars too; no firm date established.

CHINA:
Is the world's LARGEST auto market, and GROWING, in case you did not know.
They also have a major smog problem, which they desperately want to clean up.
1) Plans to implement sales goals for 1/5 of all cars to be electric or plug-in hybrids by 2025 (8 years from now).
2) Aggressive mandatory electric or plug-in hybrid sales requirements (rules may not be enforced until 2019).
2a) 8% by 2018.
2b) 10% in 2019.
2c) 12% in 2020.

What rational organization would devote resources into something that is getting phased out internationally and by your largest market.​

If the automakers felt this would be profitable, there would already be a hybrid diesel or bio-diesel vehicle in production.

That would be nice if such an OBJECTIVE study was done.

Partially true. Most electric car owners plug-in at home, at night, with a timed delayed recharge for the cheapest kilo-Watt cost. The electric companies have excess capacity at night, due to demand being low. The turbines are always running, emitting pollution, b/c they can not just shut them down due to the reduced demand; it cost a lot of money and emits a lot of pollution to restart a turbine. They are probably spinning slower, but still, emitting pollution. The electric companies are in favor of electric cars for obvious reasons: additional consumption = additional revenue.
Electric Vehicles Could Save U.S. Utilities From A Death Spiral
Utility Industry: We Need to Promote Electric Vehicles in Order to &#039;Remain Viable&#039; | Greentech Media
So no, electric cars that recharge at night, are not making the electric companies produce any more pollution than they already are, for now at least. In the future, if electric cars make a greater percentage of vehicles on the road, the equation could change.

Money=power. There are powerful interest/lobbying groups that unduly influence our elected officials, to make policy decisions that favor the entity that gives him/her the most campaign contribution dollars. Unfortunately, politicians do not make policy choices that is in the greater good for society and their constituents. We the public are to blame for this, as we allow our elected officials to get away with this, combined with the fact that we vote in such small numbers compared to other Industrial Western Countries.

 

Completely objective studies are essentially impossible. When people ask for objective studies, they typically mean "studies that support what I believe"

You're also right that a lot of decisions end up getting made by politics. So many car companies would not be planning to electrify their whole product lines if countries had not first demanded that all vehicles be electric or hybrid by a certain date.

 

If you want longevity, the older manual transmission Honda and Toyota small sedans have done very well. My sister's bro-inlaw is still driving his 1995 Honda ( forget the model) that is pushing 300K, with nary a major expense. A retired lady in Orlando Florida sold her 1964 Mercury Comet in 2012- at 576,000 miles,
it served her very well.

 

The best cure for lack of faith in a Prius (2004 to 2016), is to just keep driving it. I have seen many pictures of 350k plus odometers on the "Toyota Prius Owners Group" on facebook. Guys are pulling trailers, and hauling pianos out the hatch over there. I saw him do it, and his car has 356k on it. He has replaced the hybrid battery with a good used one for $800 at 227k.

Dan, 3rd gen from the sun

 

Good points exstudent. Especially sbout the grid power night charging. Fair enough. Except for the "if car companies thought it would be profitable " ... watch who killed the electric car . About the gm electric car way back when.

Also i understand we are trending away from diesel engines. But i dont think that because they are inferior to gasoline. Rather the opposite. Maybe ev is superior to both but i havent studied it it wouldnt surprise me. I mainly judge superiority based on renewability of the fuel and environmental impact. So that could be biodoesel hybrid or solar powered electric or both in certain situations. True high smog places like china need zero emmissions from tail pipes more than less total emmissions well to wheel.