Featured California to go all zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) by 2035

They actually used to be clearly different. Now the distinction is getting blurred, but their are differences.

https://www.carmax.com/articles/awd-vs-4wd-which-to-choose

 

Sorry, but they used to not have different meanings. Anyone who thinks these terms started out as having the meanings they do today needs to go check out some old 4WD, 4x4 and AWD vehicles. It really wasn't until after the internet became popular that people started deciding these two terms were different. Many of GM's AWD systems and their 4WD systems were the same except the 4WD had low range. That was essencially the only difference. They worked with the same clutch pack that would engage the front axle when a stepper motor pushed all the clutch plates together. There was no physical difference in how their AWD and 4WD systems operated. So unless by "now" you mean "since the 1980's and before" then you are wrong.

AWD and 4WD were badges just like Alltrack, 4Matic and S-AWC and had nothing to do with how the system worked.

 

Could be, but from what I could find, there is, and was a distinction between the terms.

 

And many mild hybrids couldn't budge themselves with the electric motor, yet they are HEVs.

A hybrid vehicle is one with two different power generators, or things that produce force over time. One is assumed to be an ICE, as that is what the starting vehicle concept has. The E in HEV refers the second power source being an electric motor. The power coming from a source does not have to be directly used to propel the vehicle, such as series hybrids. The acronym is not concerned with energy storage for the second power source; if it needs one to operate, it is assumed to have it. The vehicles have only one fuel/external energy source. the fuel for the combustion engine.

HHVs, hydraulic hybrids, have been produced and fleet tested. Compressed air cars are not hybrids; the air engine is the only power source onboard. As much as Toyota marketing would like it to be, neither are FCEVs hybrids.

Chrysler's PHEV minivan doesn't use EV at all. Does that mean PHEVs aren't EVs?

Articles and reports about EV sales and market share use the EV to refer to PHEV, BEV, and sometimes FCEV. If the discussion gets into the details, they'll use BEV for those cars. If a capacitor or primary battery EV comes to market, we'll likely just use BEV for them, as neither one would work out well for a car alone. Same with electrochemical capacitors using BEV.

Acronyms come about as shorthand. Adding more letters is moving away from shorthand simplifying. The reason you don't see BEV being used often is because simplifying it to EV works for most cases of non technical discussion. If you want to specify a BEV in a discussion, leaving the B off can lead to reader confusion though.

 

I was thinking of getting an SALIBSGFEVOW (solar assisted lithium ion battery single geared fast electric vehicle on wheels) some day. Any thoughts as to if that's a good idea or not?

 

You forgot the capabuses that use capacitors or the long list of other non-battery electric vehicles, as already beaten with a dead horse, the hybrid electric vehicle, the hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle, the diesel fuel cell electric vehicle, the solar only electric vehicle, etc. etc. etc.

I think if anyone wants to use EV or BEV that it shouldn't matter. Let the language take whatever course it wants. As long as we all understand, who cares what the Oxford Encyclopedia Britanica of Automotive Science and Technology says?

I don't like the term "battery pack" in reference to an electric vehicle yet when I hear the term I understand what people are saying, and they understand what I mean when I say "the high voltage battery."

 

FCEVs exist, and they can run without a buffer battery, just not in acceptable manner for a consumer.

As I have posted before, the term EV can be used to cover all types of EVs, not just BEVs. Google EV sales, and the hits aren't just talking about BEVs. When those articles get to talking PHEV and BEV break downs, do you want them to also use EV for BEV after using EV for both BEV and PHEV?

I used BEV in the post that started this side discussion, because I wanted to be clear that I wasn't referring to PHEVs.

 

How can you say that when an earlier post today pointed out that The Prius Prime had one of the lowest TOC?

 

How about NICE for No internal combustion engine which would include EVs without ICE and FCV (don't expect that number will be big).
EVs would include plug-in NICE cars and PHEVs ;-).

Since the ZEVs (zero emissions vehicles) often have upstream emissions and emissions in manufacturing I hate the term, hence NICE and since there are so few Fuel Cell vehicles that are likely in California maybe we can do away with ZEV.

Now on PHEVs we have 2 real types, those that can do most miles in EV mode and those that are blended. I expect blended today is used mainly in sports cars and luxury vehicles, but that may change as battery prices drop further.

I guess in 2035 California will mandate 80% NICE cars and the rest can be PHEVs. That seems too soon to stop selling so many cars without ICEs. I feel it is reasonable that NICE and PHEVs make up the new vehicle fleet, but some of those phevs could be low priced blended. Not everyone can afford a NICE car by then and many will not have a convent way to plug in.

 

Sorry. I have never heard of a NICE car and have no idea what you're talking about.

Isn't a car that does most of it's miles in pure EV/BEV form called a range extended battery electric vehicle or BEVx or something like that?

 

Who actually knows what the general public means when using EV? Maybe they are talking about BEVs, or maybe any type of plug in? Do they even know there are different types of EVs?

Of all the PHEV models available, how many are named Prius?

 

I'm sorry I thought the ;-) would tell you that I was being funny. Not sure why prius chat doesn't turn those things into the emoji .

I'm sure you have heard someone say nice car. I was making a play on that.

BEVx was a project fail at CARB. Only the BMW i3 qualified, and it seemed like they were crippling the gas tank size for no reason but to get the ZEV credits. Yes GM tried to push EREV extended range electric vehicle to differentiate the volt from from cars like the prius phv, but now we have the prius and RAV4 primes that can do many miles in electric only operation. Its probably time to throw it away. ZEV is also a CARB moniker but like I said in my post its kind of confusing and doesn't describe most BEVs or FCV as they have upstream emissions, but ZEV from the tailpipe sounds even worse.

I'm happy to call BEVs and PHEVs EVs, because that's what they are. I think the california mandate to only 20% phevs and the rest EVs without an ICE, will either be repealed, or their will be lots of old cars with engines long into the future there.

I don't like calling fcv EVs, because you can't plug them in. Their fuel is hydrogen or alcohol, it just is turned into electricity in an intermediate step. No country has fueling infrastructure for them that is 100% carbon neutral. That and calling a hybrid a self charging EV just seem like oxymoron's.

 

Think you had to leave the nose off for the software here.

edit: yep

HEV might have been in technical use before plug ins came to market. Then Toyota tried making FCHV a thing. I believe a European country banned those self charging ads.