Cadillac vs Tesla . . . LOL!

My point was that there are only 7 states that each have more than one supercharger currently.

Post a picture of the current locations.

I'll give Tesla credit for really hustling on this, but the infrastructure isn't there yet.

 

I don't have to wonder.
At 90 thou a pop, they're where......(you gotta wait for it!).........the money is.
List of U.S. states by income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Don't discount the L2 charging for the Tesla. 10KW standard and 20KW optional. Even with the supercharger network fully implemented I suspect 90+% of Tesla charging will be L2, in the owner's garage, and off-peak.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Tesla offers a non-Tesla subscription to the supercharger network for SAE-Combo equipped vehicles at some point in the future.

 

Tesla Model S Outsells VW Golf to Become Norway’s Top Selling Vehicle; Captures 6.9% of Market

I'm sure if gm/bmw kicked in cash tesla might allow it, otherwise I can't see a business reason. Right not they don't need to deal with payments, etc. If other car makers got on board it would be good PR. Good will towards people that buy from competitors though won't help sell any cars. Cars with short range would plug-in more often, causing more logistical problems.

 

Exactly. Superchargers are better because of speed and cost (relative to all the other public L2 chargers).
Tesla simply wanted to make it possible to travel cross-country, and they will do that.
In the meantime, they can fill up at any J1772 station (someone correct me if I'm wrong ) with this:
Shop Tesla Gear — SAE J1772
Tesla Test-Drive Controversy Misses the Big Picture - Forbes

However, all along the eastern seaboard are hundreds of charging stations that feature the industry standard SAE J1772 plug. Tesla includes the J1772 adapter with the car.

 

Pretty meaningless when so little of the charging will be done at the superchargers. There will be some smaller states that probably never get one (New Hampshire or such).

I don't see what point you are trying to make by "the infrastructure isn't there yet". Tesla said their current plan wouldn't be complete until 2015. I.E. It isn't supposed to be complete yet.

As for GM, the more competition the better. However, stating that Cadillac will be the brand to take them on, and then mention their goal of a 200 mile EV at $30,000 seems at odds with itself.

 

Are you referring to the Model E?
I've heard the Model X will have access to the network, at no extra cost.

 

Don't forget standard NEMA 14-50 outlets such as those at RV parks.

The 60kWh Model S can get access to the superchargers as an option.

My guess is that the top 'trim' level of the X and E will get free supercharger access and it will be available as on option at the time of purchase.

 

Competition is indeed good.
But, one cannot help but to feel sorry for GM.
They've thrown away so many opportunities.......from the EV1 to the Ultralite pictured below.
They could have been the EV leader by now, so sad to see them get schooled by a startup like Tesla
About that 200-mile GM EV......I'm assuming they will make a luxury/non-luxury version just like the ELR/Volt.
We can only speculate on looks. I am personally hoping it looks like this:
Demolition Man SAPD, anyone?

 

Nice, Like it!
I like this with the covered rear wheels, aircraft side windows, very aerodynamic car, just add air suspension that lowers automatically, side cameras and side mirrors flushed within the door that can pop out(like flip phones) with press of a button.

 

More good news for investment in plug-ins - the chinese market
China Renews $9,800 Electric Vehicle Subsidies

 

That's my guess.
You can buy access after purchasing the car, but for $500 more.

 

Your insight is pretty good
From the article:
The GM Ultralite prototype was unveiled to the public in Detroit in January ’92, with working air conditioning, self-leveling air suspension, and even the ability to hit 60mph in 8 seconds

The GM Ultralite - 1400 lbs, 100 MPG, and You Can't Have It

I like the idea of rear-view cameras that pop out.......one could only hope that GM has this type of innovative, outside-the-box-thinking.

Unfortunately, that sound like something Tesla would come up with.

GM............ARE YOU LISTENING?????

​

 

Before Caddy can compete with Tesla they have to compete with Chevy, Buick & GMC for their resources. The compromises that result aren't going to help against a competitor whose goal is to build the best car on the road.

Will a 200 mile EV sell for only $30000 someday? Maybe. If it is possible for GM it is also possible for Tesla.

 

+1

cool
Gas 2 | What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction.
That link from your link also includes a video. BMW could probably show gm how to make the carbon fiber less expensive, and the new gm 1L 3cyl turbo (shown in frankfurt in a phev) would likely do as well if not better than the 3cyl 2 stroke in the prototype.

The cameras are always there in show cars, they are also illegal to have without mirrors, so removing mirrors will not happen. But ... perhaps you can have recesses to fold the mirrors in and get the aero.

Rear wheel covers for aero dynamics just looks cool, but how do you cool the rear brakes? Change a tire? It just isn't a good idea. The tesla S gets rid of wheel blocks, but still has a cd of .24 versus .25 in a honda insight. It just isn't worth it.

Telsa also incorporates the air suspension.

NO telsa won't be the first to $30,000 200 mile car. They won't cut the corners, to get to that price point, they don't have the parts bin of a gm or a nissan. I think I would rather have the $40,000 tesla blue star, than the $30,000 chevy

 

Yep. They also have a nice little motorcycle engine as range extender
Good to know GM has 3cyl in mind as rangex.......though making it a 2-stroke is definitely out of the question with today's emissions rules.
The carbon-fiber is great, but I want to know if BMW is the industry leader?
If so, is this yet another technology/opportunity GM has squandered?

From Wikipedia:
The carbon fiber shell was fabricated by Scaled Composites and it weighed only 420 pounds (191 kg).
That's unbelievable!
The Ultralite came in at just 1,400 pounds.
The i3 weighs 2,700 pounds.........but I'm sure it is a bit more roomy.

Anyhow, this company, Scaled Composites, is still around. I am hoping that the U.S. auto industry as a whole is still competitive in the use of carbon fiber in auto manufacturing rather than the German or Asian manufacturers.

Hmm...good to know. That makes sense, I suppose. Much easier for a power/software glitch to knock out a camera, not true with a mirror.

Is cooling the rear brakes really necessary? Between the ultra light weight and regen, it seems brake fading due to temps shouldn't be an issue, but I could be wrong on this. If it is, maybe a vent could be opened up during braking, to allow air in from below? (normally staying shut to maintain aero)

I think we're talking about two different markets here. GM should realize this when releasing the 200-mile EV, if they wish to compete with Tesla, IMHO.

One group are affluent & eco-minded people, the other is tech-geek/early adopters and the third is national security hawks (there was a survey done what found these are the 3 main demographics of PHEVs/EVs........can't find the link.......). No one falls neatly into just one..........for example I am in the latter 2

Anyhow, the Tesla people will always be affluent (duh!) and a mix of all 3 groups. Volt owners probably have a disproportionate # of security hawks.

The tech-geek/early adopters were most likely to have owned an EV in the 90's and a Gen 1 Insight or Prius. When the Prius became mainstream, they tuned out and would most likely have upgraded to a LEAF, iMiev......or, if they could afford, a VW XL1. (I find myself in this crowd, and really want this:

)

So, I think the Cadillac will be a very 'conventional' looking car in order to compete with the Tesla, and by this I mean we won't be seeing any covered rear-wheel wells for this crowd.....it would be too much of a 'science experiment' in their view. (Although Tesla is sure they're Ok with this: Tesla Unveils The Model X, An Electric CUV With Futuristic Gullwing-like Doors | TechCrunch)

The GM, OTOH, could be.......anything.
And this is where GM has a real opportunity to distinguish itself from Tesla and re-establish itself as the technological leader, IMHO. It will require a car that has a bit of a 'futuristic' look. What most early adopters want (or believe) is that what they are doing will one day become commonplace. Look how many cars today are adopting a "Prius-esque" look. Covered rear wheels would be a + !!

It would be beyond awesome for GM to release, as their 200-mile EV, something that:

- Looks like the Ultralite
- Keeps the gull-wing doors
- Has a Range Extender option, just like the i3
- Has the 'GM' logo on the body (the EV1 was the only GM car in history to have had it)

They can call it the EV 2.00, for 200-miles!

GM...........IF YOU ARE LISTENING.........CALL ME

 

The gm 3cylinder turbo is not a BEVx engine (though it could be), it has more hp than the current volt ice, 115hp, but should be 20% more efficient, and physically smaller and lighter. 115hp was the same as the 2 stroke in the prototype, so they could stick in an improved ice easily. The new gm 3cylinder 1L is what they were talking about when the volt was a show car, but gm didn't have the money to make it during bankrupcy. We don't know whether it will go into volt 2.0.

I don't know who the leader is, the bmw i3 will be the first carbon fiber car at less than $100,000, since it is so much cheaper than the other cf cars produced, they at least have found ways to cut production costs.

Pretty cool. The i3 battery pack is 450lbs, and it needs to hold up to current safety regulations. Still you would think gm could modify it for today's hybrid technology (3cyl 1L engine, 1.4 kwh lithium battery, modern safety standards) and produce something cool at around 2000lbs. The real question is what would it cost. The 0.19 cd aero would definitely give it better highway mileage than anything else out there.

They are still around
Welcome To Scaled Composites

BMW is using technology from two american companies boeing and SGL. They are producing the cfrp material with SGL in washington, then manufacturing with it in Germany. Its a technology Americans lead in, but the lead is small.
: SGL Group – The Carbon Company

They can use ceramic brakes and drilled aluminum disks and it shouldn't be much of an issue, but these and the coverings are more expensive, and the gain is pretty small in something like the epa test. The faster you go the more the aero matters, but also the more energy that needs to get cooled in the brakes.

Carbon fiber is too expensive for the $30,000 market, but perhaps you give the chevy version a steel body and frame, and the cadilac an aluminum frame, cfrp body. BMW copied that forumula in the i3 and i8 from a gm prototype.

 

If it looked like a pickup it would probably sell more.

 

If it were as USEFUL as a pickup it would definitely sell more!

 

Do you mean tow and haul? Towing should not be a problem with bev technology, but hauling requires some aerodynamic compromises, that greatly reduces efficiency. With the high consumption needed for hauling a phev may be a better choice of drive train. Tesla X (due in about a year) looks like it can take a lot of stuff, but its probably much worse for hauling than a pickup.