C-Max hybrid to get 47mpg both city/hwy

I think there will be correlation in the real world results.

The difference in weight is 123 lbs. There is a difference in battery chemistry as well.

The weight gap between C-Max hybrid and Energi is 252 lbs using the same battery type.

 

That 694-pound difference resembles what I see in my career as a software engineer. As time progresses, the application becomes more and more refined.

Ford is well on its way, making a genuine effort to achieve a nice balance of priorities. Toyota has a lead of about 7 years and 2 large markets to work with though.

It will be interesting to see how people react to the differences. Realistically, there is room for the diversity. Choice among shared goals helps all involved.

 

When I drove my first Prius segment from Fort Worth to Shrieveport, I only got 39 MPG (at 75 mph) but this is why I did not turn around and take it back:

Even more so, the Prius v.

Bob Wilson

 

Remember YMMV. The epa test is the best one for comparison. Until you drive the cars. What I see in these real world challenges is they test one car in cold conditions one in moderate (Cr/Edmunds) and then seem to make a claim. Only way to test is do your own routes. The Ford system may need more driver imput like the gen II prius to get good results.

The battery chemistry is slightly different in the c-max hybrid and energi as well, not that I expect it to make much of a difference. I would not expect the weight to change highway mpg, but it may make a difference in city, although not great.

 

This may have been posted before in this thread but I don't have time to go through 200 posts.

I got to see this car in person at the Texas State Fair. It has A LOT less room in it then the Prius does. It gets worse FE. And it is quite a bit more expensive.

Love the fact that more companies are pushing more hybrids but I can't see why anyone would get this over the Prius.

 

At 6'-5" (imo) the c-max is more comfortable - even though it's smaller cargo room wise ... and that counts a lot. The plug-in version has more EV range. So turning on how far your average trips are, just like the Volt - your own particular average drive may suit the car well. I certainly wouldn't count Ford's offering out of the fight - as I do with the insight.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

So far, the Prius v is hitting its combined averaged mpg on Fuelly.com.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius v/hybrid l4

There are only 2 C-Max hybrids on Fuelly.com. So we'll have to wait for more reports. http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/c-max/hybrid l4

 

There are now 3 C-Max Hybrids on Fuelly. The latests guy is doing mostly city driving, employing some hypermiling techniques and getting well over 50 mpg. Of the other 2, both of whom are hovering around 40 mpg, one says he does more highway than city, while the other doesn't say. It would appear that the car does a lot better in city driving than highway. So it may still be a good choice for anyone who doesn't do that much highway driving. It'll still take a lot larger data sample to have a better idea how this car will work out though.

 

C-MAX Test Drive Report

This morning, I stopped at the Ford dealer and took it out for a test drive:

• Fuel filler opposite side - located on the passenger side of vehicle, like our NHW11.
• Rear space - equal to our ZVW30, much more than our NHW11. It lacks the 'storage space under the floor' found on the ZVW30 and this may explain part of the extra weight. But with both seats down, there is enough room for my wife's wheel chair and 'stuff.'
• 110VAC outlet - power unknown but likely just a laptop/cell phone recharger. We currently have 1.0 kW from our 2003 Prius or 1.5 kW from our 2010.
• Driving seat - it doesn't have the 'bent-knee' syndrome of our NHW11. The C-MAX 'fits' the North American body shape.
• Outside mirrors - they are large and the convex mirror-ettes work great. A definite improvement over both Prius
• 37 MPG - we drove a 5 mile, loop, cold car but the salesman set the AC on. Better than non-Prius cars but the Prius beat it hands down.
• twitchy accelerator and brake - I felt like it was in ZVW30 PWR-mode. I asked the salesman but had to explain the Prius PWR/Normal/ECO modes as accelerator moderation. The brakes come on FAST so it takes a little practice.
• 20 mph minimum cruise control - very nice and exactly what we need in school zones. If you start from a speed under 20 mph, it accelerates to 20 mph instead of dropping out like the Toyota cruise control.
• 2.0L Atkinson - looks to have more power to wheels, possibly a better tow vehicle than the ZVW30.
• $27,000 price - affordable but nothing to shout about.
• custom order - can get exactly what we want instead of a limited set of fixed options.

Our NHW11 does not have enough rear seat room to carry my wife's wheelchair. So we _MAY_ consider the C-MAX. My mind is open (but the wallet is closed, for now.) I'll probably do the same with a 'Prius v' before making any decisions.

Bob Wilson

 

Yes, it will take more samples, particularly more drivers/cars, but this new one is pretty amazing. This driver isn't just getting a little over 50, but has three tanks for an average of 55.2 MPG. It brings up the average for the three cars to 45.0 MPG.

 

Some more data on the C-Max forum. It looks like darrelld now own a C-Max hybrid now.

C-MAX Fuel Mileage. What are you getting? - Ford C-MAX Hybrid Forum

 

Aren't they from Sanyo/Panasonic? How are they slightly different?

 

Yes they are the Sanyo chemistry side of Panasonic for the c-max and fusion hybrid and energi. They have slightly different chemisties for hybrids versus energis because of the different discharge cycles. Nisan also does a different chemistry in its leaf versus infiniti hybrid.

The energis also provide more kw from the battery packs.

 

I knew about the 5Ah cells for HEV and 21Ah cells for PHEV. I just don't know the chemistry difference between the two. My guess is, one is tune for high power and the other for higher energy while meeting PHEV power requirement.

I doubt there will be measurable difference between the two. The bigger battery in Energi should enable higher MPG after depleted but the weight probably lowers it.

 

Considering Ford elected not to make use of any weight saving techniques, like aluminum hoods, over the standard C-max available elsewhere, not really. The Prius-PHV still weighs as much as a SUV. Only because Mazda brought the Skyactiv CX-5 to market, and they are the kings of weight saving on everyday cars.

 

If we are talking about hybrid technology, Ford and Toyota are at about the same place. They shared patents in 2004, and since then both have progressed. Ford says this hybrid system weighs 1/3 less than the one in the escape. The lithium battery costs 30% less than the old nimh and weighs half as much. Ford may be a year ahead toyota in the gen III prius, but when the gen IV prius comes out I expect toyota will be ahead again.

As for hybrid cars though, the prius seems to hit the market with better trade offs than the ford. Even if ford coppied it more, toyota's quality reputation and installed base would keep toyota sales ahead. The extra weight in the c-max has to do with the c-max and not the hybrid bits. The c-max hits a slightly different segment than the prius liftback and wagon (v, alpha, whatever you call it). More power, better handling, higher seating position, but more money and slightly worse gas mileage. It should do well compared to the escape, but nothing can compete in hybrid sales volume to the prius.

+1

 

We'll see the Dashboard report in two more weeks and the C-MAX is just starting to show up. The local dealer had two arrive and both are sold. Don't forget there will be at least 60 days for the pent-up demand to abate so don't draw any conclusions until January/February.

Bob Wilson

 

Isn't it amazing that the 2010 Prius weighs more than the 2009 Prius but gets better gas mileage?

 

thats the problem with GM and Ford... they "could", but they dont.

Every Ford and GM car is currently heaviest in the class... its poor engineering and hurts them in every way possible.

 

Since Toyota has to put all of the Prius on a boat, I wonder if the weight savings benefits their own cost structure more than for Ford or GM.