Bye bye Kerry? Hello John Edwards!!

Hmm....what services would those be that "they" demand? Can you please list them so I can see if we really need them or not. Thanks.

I started to watch the Kerry acceptance speech, but fell asleep after the first 3 words.....so, did he win? I think I'll vote for Bush just so we can expand the English language some more. :mrgreen:

Atoyot.

 

How about we start with EVERY government service since our current Great Leader chooses to use a credit card financing approach to fund government. But wait, government bad, government evil, I almost forgot!
:lol:

 

I cannot comment on Kerry's speech. I didn't hear it. What did he "accept"? One supposes he will be the Democratic nominee, but that's not official until the convention. Maybe he "accepted" Edwards's stepping out of the race?

Services Americans demand from their government include (but are not limited to) road construction and maintenance; law enforcement (cops, courts, jails, and prisons); garbage collection; schools; construction and maintenance of harbors; policing of ports of entry to the country to try to prevent the entry of contraband and undocumented workers; fire-fighting; search-and-rescue on land and sea; weather monitoring and forecasting; social security (a big item and controversial: some folks want it privatized, but those who have paid in all their lives demand they be paid what was promised to them); and a bloated military (supposedly to defend the country, but generally used to invade smaller countries that have displeased our government in one way or another, also a controversial matter, with a majority usually supporting the military expenditure while a significant minority opposes it -- but since we're talking here of "services" that Americans demand, a majority seems to be demanding that we continue to spend this money.)

An exhaustive list would probably fill the space available on this server.

No doubt you will point to some of the above services as "unnecessary," but the fact remains that overall, Americans demand them.

If you were to go to your bank and ask for a million-dollar loan, giving them assurance that your as-yet-unborn great-great-grandchildren would pay it back, they would escort you out onto the street, and maybe report you to the men in the white coats. But this is exactly what the Shrub is doing, with the twist that it's YOUR great-great-grandchildren who will pay, and a nice chunk of the borrowed money is going directly into the pockets of his cronies and the super-rich.

I'd vote for Kerry come November, except that I don't expect him to be any different, so it's all the same to me which of these two criminals is in charge of the mafia known as the U.S. Gummint. For the matter of that, since I live in a strongly-Republican state, my vote does not count anyway. Bush is getting our three electoral-college votes no matter who I vote for. Maybe I'll write in Felix the Cat for president.

 

Daniel,

I am in agreement with your post except for the above. I too live in a strongly Republican area. So much so, that the last time I voted I encountered poll workers so genuinely surprised that they exclaimed, "oh, you're a Democrat..." They then informed me that of 400+ votes already cast, I was approximately the 20th Democrat to come in. My ten-year old found this particularly amusing. I make it a practice to take my kids with me to experience the voting process whenever practical, which the poll workers are genuinely fond and supportive of. This includes general, primary, and school board elections.

In a democracy, each person of age has both the right and responsibility to be heard via their vote. Call it an exercise in futility, but your voice is critical to maintaining a true democracy. If this doesn't fit your logical side, then allow your passion have it's due!

And as for Kerry being of the same ilk as Bush and friends, I'd suggest that you pay closer attention before forming such a blanket opinion. Political advertisements and singular news sources will not adequately inform us. Use the Internet, check different news media viewpoints, and by all measure, be reluctant to "buy" any viewpoint without careful scrutiny!

VOTE (everyone)!

 

He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank
He voted to kill every aircraft carrier laid down from 1988
He voted to kill the Aegis anti aircraft system
He voted to Kill the F-15 Strike Eagle
He voted to Kill the Block 60 F-16
He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade
He voted to Kill the B-1
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the Patriot Anti Missile System
He voted to Kill the FA-18
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the F117

In short, he voted to kill every military appropriation for the
development and deployment of every weapons systems since 1988 to
include the battle armor for our troops. With him as president
our Army will be made up of naked men running around with sticks
and clubs.

He also voted to kill all anti terrorism activities of every agency
of the U.S. Government and to cut the funding of the FBI by 60%,
to cut the funding for the CIA by 80%, and cut the funding for the
NSA by 80%.

But then he voted to increase OUR funding for U.N operations
by 800%!!!

So, who is he?

Yes, I'll be sure to vote.

 

So, as a Senator he weighed each of these issue and voted in what he viewed was in the interest of his constituents, and the American public in general.

Now, I suppose a Senator would know that a missle system used 44 times in Gulf War I and yet only "hit" its intended targets somewhere between 2 to 4 times. Of course, that vote was probably held before the same system killed approximately 10 or so of our airmen this time around. You see, it has a nasty habit of confusing friendly aircraft with incoming enemy missles.

A long time back when Republicans were represented by true leaders, a particular former WWII general warned something about this country's military-industrial complex. Perhaps we all should be thankful for Senators like John Kerry, who weigh fact rather than hype, for they are watching our collective backs (and wallets).

 

The above comment is the typical (180 degrees out of phase) liberal logic!

 

ukeright:
Giving your ONE comment the benefit of the doubt, what say you about ALL THE OTHER no votes? Would you prefer no military at all? Would you prefer to be answering to Usama? Would you prefer our country not be able to protect itself? Give life a try living anywhere but the USA. Want to answer to the radical Muslims? With no defense (He voted NO to all items mentioned), our country would be in ashes.

 

Odd analogy of the patriot missile system. I watched the first gulf war on TV, just like everyone else. I definitely seem to recall numerous mentions of the patriot system batting 1000. Of all of the scuds that were launched at the US, troops, only one got through. Many of the missiles that landed in Israel had obvious damage from patriots hitting them. We cannot control where the leftovers come down.

The only wallet Kerry is watching out for is his own. If you believe for a moment that he actually gives a damn about you, me, or anyone else that isn't greasing his palm with more money, you need to do some research on the man.

The man is one of the worst gold diggers I've seen scumming up the TV airwaves in quite some time.

 

Very well said, Wolfman!

 

We don't really live in a democracy. The two political parties, each representing about 1/4 of the population, have a lock on the system, leaving about 1/2 of us out in the cold. Neither of these guys represents me. They quarrel like cats and dogs over a very narrow range of issues and spending numbers. I will vote my passion. But in our winner-take-all system, corrupted by big money, my passion, on the federal level, is doomed to be a protest candidate, such as the Green Party or a cartoon character.

Now, on the local level, I have two candidates to get excited about and I'm giving time and money to both. But I'm fortunate to live in a very small city in a very small state, where local elections can still be fought without big money.

 

The Patriot missle has been a miserable failure. It was overhyped in GW I, and still remains a threat to our flying service personnel. And, as to batting 1.000, wake up! It has now been shown to have been batting somewhere around 0.070. Perhaps that is good enough for you with a price tag in the $ billions?

Currently, there is a tremendous push to roll out the national missle defense system just in time for the Republican convention. Doesn't matter that it is not ready, nor has barely managed to pass test scenarios designed to be a cakewalk. It's politics baby, not defense of our shores! And, what is politics but moving money towards friends. Someday, this same explanation will be useful in writing the history of WHY we went to Iraq.

Why thank you for the benefit...

I am a big time supporter of the military, just not of the military industry that seems to have little regard for our troops. The waste that goes on with these contractors while our service people and their dependents are treated like second class citizens is shameful.

Kerry's votes needs to be taken in the context of when they occurred. The 90's was the post-Cold War decade requiring a revamping of our military strategy, its equipment needs, and in general, how the US economy was supporting the military industry. Simply put, it was in fact a time for both change and reduction, which does not at all imply that we became less capable to fight Osama. You see, terrorists aren't quite the Soviet Bloc or Red China, their work is somewhat more nefarious.

But hey, if you want to disect each vote independently, I'm game. Your move. Just be aware that the recent Bush ad denouncing Kerry's proposal to cut CIA funding wouldn't be a good starting point. It has been documented that Kerry's proposed cutback was substantially less than the one proposed and passed by the Republicans at the time.

Oh, by the way, do you really see Osama and friends becoming our keepers?

 

It's Sunday morning.

I just finished reading a feature article in the Sunday Seattle Post Intelligencer profiling Washington National Guard personnel training in the California desert for duty in baghdad next month.

One such reservist was a gray-haired, 53-year old grandfather and seed company employee. As a 64 year old gradfather and Disabled Veteran, I can relate.

It reminds me too much of Hitler's desperate efforts near the end of the war, sending adolescents and seniors to the front. Can you also remember a 19-year old girl pointlessly put in harm's way and an Iraqi hospital eary in this boutique war? And the unfortunate facts that were later revealed about the "heroic" activities and "gallant" rescue surrounding this sorry media event?

In the same paper was and article about the rush to battle resulting in aging Chinook helicopters and shortages in armored vehicles, leasing of Russian transport aircraft to get our materiel to Kuwait for this Bushwar, ongoing ( U.S. $ 300,000 + per month) payments to Iraqi pols for information we now know to be useless, and increasing rapes of fellow female service personnel (complete with the classic lack of action by DOD), alcoholism and drug use in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait.

I lay this at the feet of the White house (no just the Little Cowboy but his advisors and corporate campaign contributors), not Senator Kerry.

Take a moment and revisit the confirmed list of terrorists aboard the 9/11 aircraft. A lot of Saudis and Kuwaitis, no Iraqis.

I am reminded of of George Orwell's perpetual war to keep the populace in fear of the "other". It never ended. It wasn't supposed to end.

This is the Bush familiy legacy I will vote against.

Let me tell you something, sir:

We need our human and financial resources to address critical issues at home, not offshore.

Our children are drifting, childhood diseases of the 1940's are returning, our schools are sub par, our highways and bridges are crumbling, our jobs are moving offshore, health care cost are outstripping the S&P stocks, yet we continue to focus on "terorrism" and "Homeland (see also Fatherland, Motherland)" Defense.

What are we doing to ourselves?

Yes, I will vote for Mr. Kerry, assuming he pays attentyion Mr. Dean.

After that I will continue to see what is before me in my own country and neighborhoods, educate myself, read foreign news papers as well as U.S. media, recycle, eat less, make less trash, use less fossil fuel, take care of my own before calling attention to the behavior of offshore governments and their spikey escapades.

My 10 years in the Marines (Vietnam era) taught me a lot about what happens during and after a "justified" U.S. miliatry action. Put your gun collection away for half a day and pay a visit to a VA Hospital if you just can't buy my line. See for yourself the legacy of combat and it's lasting effects on our men andd women and the families.

If it doesn't sicken you, riddle you with shame and guilt than nothing I write here will make a bit of difference.

I'm still ashamed of our behavior then (Vietnam) as I am our behavior now.

How many civilian Iraqi and Afghani deaths and injuries will it take to make you content with miltary budget increases for corporations that could care less about whether you or your family have work, health care, safe neighorhoods and a strong local economy?

I wonder.

Our knitting is here in the U.S., not overseas. We need to get back to it, I think.

Bob

 

Bob,
Well thought out, and well put. And I thank you for serving our country.

 

Bob,

Ditto, and thanks.

Paul

 

What childhood diseases specifically are returning...I haven't seen any polio, diphtheria, etc.

 

During two Gulf wars, I protested in front of the P.O. while pro-war folks shouted "SUPPORT THE TROOPS!"

"Support the troops"?

I spent five years, from 1990 to 1995, working half-time as a volunteer at a local shelter for homeless men, serving meals to everyone who came through our door and providing beds to a dozen at a time (plus floor space on extremely cold winter nights, or especially mosquito-plagued summer ones). Something in the neighborhood of 1/4 to 1/3 of those homeless men were Vietnam vets.

I never saw any of those pro-war demonstrators helping out any of these vets. The VFW never gave them any free meals or a place to sleep. The health care they got at the VA was pathetic and substandard, when they could get any at all. The government claimed, and still claims, that agent orange never hurt anybody. And as far as Bush Sr. was concerned, they were nothing but bums. The Shrub is even worse, cutting VA medical benefits even further. A friend of mine (another Vietnam vet) nearly died in the VA hospital when a physician's assistant botched a flexible sigmoidoscopy (there was no physician present, much less a specialist!)

Support for the troops? HA!!! Serve your country and then get thrown on the garbage heap!

And while young men and women are asked to give their lives, the arms industry cannot even be asked to give up its profits. You want guns or armor or machinery so those soldiers have something to fight with? Well, the arms makers won't provide it unless you grease their palms with the fattest profits in all of American industry. And that's in the rare cases when they are not committing outright fraud.

Support the troops? Don't make me laugh! The only people supporting the troops are the homeless shelters that take them in after the government spits them out. Of course, the Shrub doesn't care. His daddy saw to it that he didn't have to go to war, and then covered it up for him when he went AWOL. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, because even as a pacifist I think those kids deserve better.

 

Daniel,

Well said, and thank you for being so generous with these individuals.

Paul