Bush may have had it right...

Ever read "1984"? We're living it.

 

They already are. But do you seriously think the Communist Party will "remove" their absolute control? Fah!

Like the Vietnam War??

Remember that in our previous discussion of telecom and Gore, the "Internet" started off as a DARPA idea called "DARPANet." The network was designed to keep critical military comms up during a surprise and devastating Soviet nuclear attack.

That's the whole point of having a packet network that is allowed to discard payload. You don't latch up what's left of your network if the Master is vaporized. Try that stunt with an isochronous or even a plesiochronous telecom network. Once you lose the timing source, it will latch up.

The T1 system, developed in the late 50's, was designed with similar goals in mind. Admittedly, the T1 system met the needs of the 50's, but DARPANet was needed to meet the needs of the 60's. In either case, countless billions of taxpayer dollars were involved in developing these networks.

The neat thing about the American Military Industrial Complex is that there were so many spin-offs to the Private Sector, eg material science, high tech obviously, aviation, etc.

Once again, what the h*** do you know about Canada? Are you a Canadian living in the United States, or a dual citizen like myself with equal number of family on both sides of the border???

On the other hand, if you're a "liberal" with romantic visions of the Liberal Party, read the facts and try to figure them out. And please don't try to tell Canadians what news source they should listen to.

The Democrats in the United States have their definition of "liberal" and it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the Liberal Party of Canada. Our Liberal Party members up here are deranged amoral crackpots, PM Chretien comes to mind, who won their "all or nothing" governments simply due to the fact our voting system is far from representational.

If you win Ontario and Quebec, you rule all of Canada. To further entrench your power, you then appoint Senators to their lifetime posts, as the Senate in Canada is *not* elected. If you *really* want to know how the Liberals think, consider that famous quote from former Mississauga MP Carolyn Parrish:

"Damn Americans … I hate those bastards."

Or are you a self-loathing American who welcomes a comment like that from a foreign country? Personally, if I heard an American Congressman or Senator make a crack like that, I'd be mad as h***. Though now that the ball has been tossed, I expect more Americans to make comments like that about Canada. And in that case, I wouldn't blame them one bit.

I suppose you would prefer it if all Canadians got their news from the Crown Corporation CBC (Canadian Broadcast Corporation) or the Liberal Government friendly CTV? Then Canadians would never have learned about how desperately broken their health care system was, how their Canadian Armed Forces was all but immobilized due to "rust out," and the many scandals involving Sponsorship, the EDC, and CIDA.

The Canada Free Press was at the forefront of exposing especially the $20 billion Canadian Taxpayer dollars per year that are p***** away in foreign countries with absolutely no benefit to the average Canadian. This foreign investment even "helps" create environmental destruction in foreign countries:

http://www.probeinternational.org

BTW Probe International is actually an environmentalist outfit. They're not a bunch of, as you may refer to it, "right wing nutjobs."

Even better, PM Paul Martin recently bemoaned the "lack" of high tech skills and workers here in Canada, and suggested many more immigrants with those skills be allowed in. Of course, he was just roasted by legions of unemployed and underemployed Canadian high tech skilled workers.

I think Martin actually forgot to add "lack of high tech skilled worker who are willing to work part time for minimum wage." For some odd reason, Canadian college recruiting fairs with American company representatives reported a sharp increase in Canadian students taking advantage of the H1 entry Visa

Though his classic gaffe was last fall during the Remembrance Day ceremony when he thanked the WW II veterans for their sacrifice during their successful invasion of "Norway." He rewrote the history books several times during his speech, making Dubya look like a Toastmaster.

So unless you derive some obscene pleasure from Canadians paying among the highest aggregate taxes in the world, with no income growth in over a decade, and rising prices, you should be happy some Canadians are throwing off their shackles and saying "enough already!"

Or does it bother you that it was the Canada Free Press and The Underground Royal Commission that exposed this? Would it have been better if perhaps the CBC had exposed this??

Anyhoo, I'm driving out to the hobby farm for the weekend. I won't be checking my email until Sunday night. That should give you enough time to find "obvious" flaws in my Canadian reasoning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"71600)</div>

Although I wouldn’t mind living on Lake Chelan, paying $49.95 for 5Mbps/384Kbps would be a major letdown, since for the same price, I have 10Mbps/10Mbps.

[Kramer voicen] I’m ruined I tell you, RUINED!!!

I am a speed junky . . . except when it comes to the car I drive.

 

as far as the internet thing we can go round and round for years and all be partially right.

but i have a fundamental belief that the governments intention was to NEVER share information with the masses over the internet.

it was the educational institutions that are chiefly responsible for what the internet is today. they are the ones who recognized its potential. not the government. do you really think that the internet would have exploded under the government?? not a chance... that is why i say gore had nothing (or very very little to do with it) to with the explosion that is the internet.

college students from berkley who wanted a better way to find info maybe. or maybe some scientists working on a government project that started sending data back and forth creating the first crude email-like system to do so. obtw, that was done without government permission. the idea was so right that even the government couldnt stop them.

 

and i guess i have to add one more thing. i cant remember when a politician ANYWHERE invented something.

politician is nothing but a paid-for, lobby-controlled, special-interest parrot. gore is not an independent thinker, never was, never will be. i frankly dont know of a politician that is.

 

Gore never said he invented anything. This was the statement that Gore made. The actual words were taped and it's not that hard to find an mp3 out there on the internet:
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

Karl Rove and others used those words in bold to suggest that Gore claimed to have invented the internet, words that he never spoke. Yet even you Patrick seem to think that Gore did say those words.

Sometimes perceptions are worth more than facts. Currently, American's are being told that Bush's foreign policy -- most notably in Iraq -- is simply brilliant because he is the one that is bringing Democracy to the world. I think saner heads know this is not true. These are the same people who want us to belive that Gore is a liar. Now I don't particular love Gore, but he was never the liar that Karl Rove and others made him out to be. And you can choose to believe that Gore had no affect on the internet. But to arrive at that choice you must discard facts.

Here is an outtake from a December 29, 1988 edition of the New York Times:

"Computer scientists and Government officials are urging the creation of a nationwide "data superhighway" that they believe would have a dramatic economic impact, rivaling that of the nation's interstate highway system.

This highway would consist of a high-speed fiber-optic data network joining dozens of supercomputers at national laboratories and making them available to thousands of academic and industry researchers around the country ...

Legislation introduced in October by Senator Albert Gore, Democrat of Tennessee, included initial financing for development and construction of a National Research Network. Backers of the measure say that Federal financing for the project is necessary to develop the technology and convince industry that vastly speedier computer networks are commercially viable."

Personally, I think that this NYT article suggests that " I took the initiative in creating the Internet." qualifies as no more than a slight overstatment. And considering that this overstatement has not resulted in the death of over 1500 American soldiers, nor over 100,000 Iraqis, like some other "overstatements", I think Gore deserves an apology.

 

Create and invent mean the same thing.

 

"I took the initiative in creating" is not same as "I created" and it was an off the cuff answer to a question.

And does "WMD that are an imminent threat to America" mean the same thing as "spreading democracy"? And that was in a carefully crafted speech repeated over and over.

 

i think you missed my point. gore is and was a puppet and a STUPID one at that.

ok fine, he invented the internet or whatever...now lets talk about his other "achievements"

how about super efficient automotive technology? that should be near and dear to your heart since you drive a Prius. many feel that the reason the big 3 do not embrace hybrid technology is because of al gore.

heres an excerpt from an article from the Chicago trib
entitled Supercar: The Tanking of An American Dream

Championing the effort from the White House was Vice President Gore, who personally negotiated the Supercar agreement and then promoted the project for years—at times only when it was politically expedient.

Gore, White House documents show, struck a secret deal with the Big Three in 1993 that was highly favorable to the industry. If the automakers tried to build Supercar, Gore promised that the Clinton administration would back off its 1992 campaign promise of trying to force them to raise the average fuel economy of their cars from 27.5 to 40 miles per gallon by 2000. The automakers, who make more money on large vehicles than small ones, had opposed the 40-mile-per-gallon plan, saying it would greatly reduce their profits.


many experts agree that relaxing CAFE IS THE REASON why the big 3 still as of yet doesnt have a hybrid out there. they simply dont have a reason to do it.

being environmentally responsible or reducing dependence on foreign oil apparently are not good enough reasons to cut into the now rapidly shrinking profits they had. only the spectacular runaway success of the Prius has made them even sit up and take notice of the hybrid movement.

well you say it takes time to develop hybrid technology right?? ya it does and the big three started the developement and produced a working prototype five years ago!!!

http://priuschat.com/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=799

so you can see that even if gore did invent the internet he still one of the most pathetic individuals i am unhappy to be aware of. this country may never recover from the damage that this person has singlehandly done

if anyone wants a copy of the article pm me. it is a long one and a good one. please be forewarned. if you care about the future of this country this article will either make you cry or scream with frustration.

 

So Al Gore is a horrible human being because he got manipulated by GM?

Or are you suggesting that he puposefully supported a project -- the supercar -- because he hated America?

Or could it be he got snookered? He wouldnt' be the first.

And again, he did not invent the internet, I never said he did, and he never said he did. And I am not a Gore lover and there is no doubt in my mind that he is a flawed human being. But he is not a liar and he is not evil.

And his mistatements cannot compare with damage done by the mistatements and missed opportunities and misdirections by the current President.

 

well i voted for kerry but only because he was the lesser of two evils.

as far as im concerned, they are both politicians and therefore not worthy by definition.

 

Agreed.

 

Prius 04:
Your post dated March 10 regarding The American Century are insightful and right on the mark. It's too bad politicians in general have taught us the (non) art of spin so successfully that people who disagree with your point of view can't take the time to even CONSIDER your message and jump right in and try at all costs to discredit your thinking. While I agree many Americans were educated during the 20th century, many more were not and now feel so threatened by those who were taught the art of how to think, that those less educated become a nation of sheeple who blah blah blah louder and more vociferously than those who can actually think choose to, because they see how transparent fools are. Complicating the matter, the democratic party is in such disarray that those operatives at the top are more concerned with keeping their power than leading. Mix it all with the rampant and total lies disguised as 'news' aimed at the sheeple and you get a dangerous precedent which is helping in a big way to lead a once-great-nation from empowerment to decline. That is, decline in the Central American State of decline as evidenced by silencing of opposition, secret government agencies spying on the people, and a huge variance between the rich and poor, with the rich preserving their newfound status at any cost including supporting a repressive government. It's painful for a middle aged person to watch, speaking as one who was raised in an era of prosperity for all in the first half of his life, but can see the writing on the wall for the second half of his life as so much more pessimistic.

 

Patrick:

Tell me about it.

Of course, here in Canada the big fat dumb telco's can operate as legal monopolies while the Canadian government ensures protection from foreign "competition." That's why you won't find a single PON deployment in this country.

Ironically, Crown Corporations like EDC and CIDA still invest upwards of $20 billion taxpayer dollars a year in foreign countries to make sure some folks in China and India have fiber networks.

 

David:

The Internet, developed in 1968 as DARPANet, was originally designed to be a military communications network that was designed to still operate in the event of a surprise nuclear attack. In particular, the packet technology that allows payload discard to prevent latch up if timing happens to be upset.

As the original DARPANet had to allow the participating Universities to also access the network, it was inevitable the private citizen would soon be experiencing the WWW.

Unlike repressive regimes, there is a lot of spin-off benefit from military technology. Too bad it seems to take so long for it to trickle down

 

David:

For the most part: Ditto.

If a politician happens to be historically lucky enough to be in the rising edge of something good, they take credit for it. If on the other edge, they suddenly shut the f*** up or blame somebody else for it.

 

He isn't?

I recently watched a very interesting debate on politics on I Channel:

http://www.ichannel.ca

One of the panel members, a very energetic fellow, made the following point:

"All politicians are liers!"

It doesn't seem to matter what country you live in, you eventually develop your personal gestalt and paradigm, then you make very apparent efforts to defend it.

The thing is, it's no longer personal. It becomes GroupThink and you're defending whatever the group tells you to defend.

Ironically, if you question *everything* then at the very least you're labeled wishy-washy. More seriously, you're labeled as "dangerous" and in certain countries they shoot you or turn you into a human waffle.

I personally tend to hold my elected leaders, such as they are here in Canada, accountable for their actions. I don't trust politicians, never have and never will.

When you start making blanket statements to the effect "liberals good conservatives bad" I have to shake my head.

Up here we have socialists who belong to the NDP who appear to be decent, nice, even desirable folks. We also have Christians up here who have the same traits and who belong to the former Reform Party or Christian Alliance.

Then we have wealthy shipping tycoon Prime Ministers who appear to be amoral crackpots. So wealthy he makes Dubya look like a minimum wage worker

 

Well, yeah, "I took the initiative in creating" is the same as "I created", its like saying Edison took the intitiative in creating the light bulb. It doesn't mean he didn't create the light bulb, or that he did not lead the way in doing so.

So, saying that he said he invented the internet is a correct but not exact quote, since the words are virtually interchangeable.

People understood what he said, knew it to be a whopper of a lie. Yes, he was made fun of. And he deserved it.

 

Well, yeah, "Saddam is hiding weapons of mass destruction" is the same as "spreading democracy", its like saying Edison took the intitiative in creating the light bulb. It doesn't mean he didn't create the light bulb, or that he did not lead the way in doing so.

So, saying that he said he was spreading democracy is a correct but not exact quote, since the words are virtually interchangeable.

People understood what he said, knew it to be a whopper of a lie. Yes, he was made fun of. And he deserved it.

 

Saddam had WMD, but not in military significant quantities. One of the chemical weapons was used in a roadside bomb attack against our own troops. The number of exotic biological programs he had going was astounding.

And the WMD argument was one of several reasons for removing this funder of world terror.

Bush was re-elected dispite the lack of discovery of vast quantities of WMD.

Gore lost an election under conditions that should have been an easy victory. Why? Telling large whoppers could have been a reason given by some, but the plain truth is that Gore lost every state where the Clinton job approval rating was in the toilet. Gore kept Clinton out of the campaign as best as he could, but it wasn't enough to overcome the poor Clinton job approval numbers.