BT Tech Stiffening plate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 11:48 AM) [snapback]413085[/snapback]</div>

I am afraid Presto is right - As a torsional plate, the width and thickness of the plate are critical. Making the OEM plate stronger by adding steel to it... would not even be close to the same thing as the BT plate.

Actually, BT - as vendor - should do the test and report it out. If the plate provides a benefit - it would only further add to their sales.

Otherwise, someone else has to step up to the "plate".... teee heee

 

IMO the bt plate helps keep the car riding flat. I have an 04 suspension (worse of all models) and the car bumps around much less with the plate installed.

There is one drawback. the bottom of the car is, what seems to aluminum. This allows for the cars frame to "twist" under the plate.

I recently had a mishap where my old plate was bent. This bend (about 15 to 20 degrees of bend) twisted the under carriage too. When installing the replacement i was able to put the bolts in at angles. As i tightened them, the frame of the car bent to the new plate.

So... i think the car is the problem. I still believe the plate helps. I know it helps on my car.

You guys have to remember these plates were based on designs for corvettes. corvettes are built much better than a prius where a plate like this may be as rigid as the undercarriage of the car.

just my .02

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 27 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]413100[/snapback]</div>

John, are you aware that Brian has said several times that he has no intention of doing any objective testing of the plate. He said that the support of his loyal customers is plenty good enough. Which is fine.

Whether Presto is correct or not, it appears to me that the plate is having no effect. That is not the fault of the plate. I suggest that there is very little flex at the point of the plate to correct. That can be measured, too, although it is a little more difficult. I may just do that.

If there was a lot of stress on the plate, I suspect there would be at least a few reports of failure by those who drive especially hard. I don't recall any of such things. It appears that these plates enjoy a peaceful and undisturbed life which is consistent with just sitting there bolted on without much stress.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Mar 26 2007, 08:07 PM) [snapback]412578[/snapback]</div>

I put over sized tires and chrome wheels on my Prius. It looks great. The cornering was improved but the low profile tires made for a harder ride. The BT plate improved the ride quite nicely-- well worth every cent I spent on it. But after $1500 for chrome wheels and low profile tires another $200 to improve the ride was worth it. Granted I may not know much about car mechanics but after 30 years as professional scientist with more than a few post doc gigs let me assure you what you read here is data. Statistics are fine but far too over used. Did the treatment cure what ails you? No? Try another. The BT plate cured my ride and I am grateful.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]413129[/snapback]</div>

I'd postulate that, since it's only torqued to about 20ft/lbs and there are those slotted bolt holes on one side, there would probably be slippage in the area of the slotted bolt holes long before the plate failed or the unibody was damaged somehow.

I've had mine for almost a year (along with the TRD shocks springs and struts) and drive fast: foot to the floor in corners/stability control warning light flashing on and off fast, actually, and I've not noticed any signs of failure or other abnormalities.

I'd humbly suggest that the Plate does help; that it's probably not nearly the 'will it damage the structure of the entire car?!?' or 'will it totally void my warranty?!?' issue that some make it out to be. It's not a huge deal one way or the other, IMHO.

Sometimes it's not the Truth that we really want, it's about supporting our beliefs with what we think are "facts" and then giving ourselves permission to act or not.

Get a plate. Put it on. Drive the car. See what YOU feel. Let that be YOUR truth. Is it worth modifying your car to get these results? It doesn't really cost that much to find out.

I've wondered, every time this debate would come up in the past, why is it so important to have a third party quantify all of this?

I'm sure there is one set of numbers that affirm that the plate is awesome...and an equal and opposing set which condemns it in no uncertain terms.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Mar 27 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]413199[/snapback]</div>

Hi Pinto Girl

I have been following many things on PC for some time. I find several people including you who say things which I respect. Another person whom I have come to respect recently turned my head regarding the BT plate so I have been seriously considering its merits. I am not a "beliefs" person. I have a Prius because it was demonstrated to me that it is a superior car. The claims for the Plate just to not cut it for me. To say "It just works" is like saying "black is white". What you feel or believe is not necessarily transferable to me. It is not a question of warranty or harming the car. This is not even a consideration to me.

For example. I just went out to the car and jacked it up and put it under torque again. I could measure no deflection at the point of the plate at maximum torque without the plate. If the car twists just the same without the plate as it does with the plate and there is no measurable deflection at the point of the plate to correct, what is the plate doing? (Note, there are four handy holes by the plate which make accurate measurements possible)

I stand by what I have said.

I am, however, open to objective information about the BT plate.

 

This discussion reminds me of the Down to the Rapture thread in FHOP.

 

With all due respect Allannde you are saying things that are not quite true. I have explained to this forum from day 1 about the amount of testing that was done on this product before it was ever offered for sale. I also mentioned how many revisions and programming changes that we made to provide the best possible quality product. I even posted a FEA (Finite Element Analysis) showing the structural properties of our plate compared with the OEM plate. Show me one other company that sells a product as inexpensively as this one that does this.

I explained in detail about how I had experienced automotive enthusiasts/race car drivers drive the car with and without the plate installed and report their results. This was a blind test and the driver had no knowledge whether the BT stiffening plate was installed or not. What the test told me was that every driver was able to detect the differences in the cars ride/handling with the BT plate installed. The most common experience reported was that the car feels like a more solid structure with enhanced highway tracking and better overall handling of the vehicle.

People that are looking for empirical absolute data showing the exact differences in structural rigidity and the increase in the resonant frequency of the body are not going to find this information. The associated costs to conduct such a study would be prohibitively expensive and no one other than the factory were probably able to provide such data.

We have sold a great number of plates both here in the United States and to other countries around the world. Every person that I have spoken with personally have expressed their pleasure and explained to me their experiences and benefits after installing our BT stiffening plate. Don't you think that after close to 3 years if the plate did not do what it was designed to we would have heard something by now?

Of all of the BT stiffening plates that we (PriusChat and us) have sold do you know how many people have called saying that they were not happy with our product? Answer: 0




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 04:42 PM) [snapback]413129[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 06:19 PM) [snapback]413213[/snapback]</div>

No, it's not.

I have asked many long married people how they knew their spouse was "the one".

Every answer I've received is "you just know".

Brian stands behind his plate. He has said that anyone that buys it, tries it and is not satisfied is welcome to return it for a full refund.

I suggest naysayers buy one, try it and then keep it or return it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Mar 27 2007, 04:47 PM) [snapback]413249[/snapback]</div>

Hello Brian

What you quoted me saying was true. You said that. What you went on to say was your due as this is your business.

As a potential customer, I am allowed to question the product you sell. Those who have purchased have an interest to not feel they made a mistake and that is why independent analyses are usually preferred.

I am williing to give you the benefit of the doubt for all of the reasons you give. I do not question the properties of the plate. I question if those properties are put to use by the car.

I have two questions.

1. If under maximum torsion which the body will express, there is no measureable displacement of the two ends of the mounting of the plate with no plate present, what function does the plate perform?

2. If it is your assertion that the plate performs some other function, what is that function?

Don't change the subject. Answer the questions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]413279[/snapback]</div>

Not to steer this off topic, but I ordered a plate last week, and sent an email (only way of contact) to find out where my order stands. I have not heard anything from anyone, and my email was unanswered. Is there anyone that I can talk to in order to find out the status?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 06:51 PM) [snapback]413279[/snapback]</div>

Actually, your test proves nothing of the BT plate. It just proves that the stock plate doesn't do anything!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Mar 27 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]412964[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget that the BT plate is also made of aluminum alloy, which is more rigid than steel (at least that's what my civil engineering roommate told me when I was in college). So the properties of the metals themselves will be different. So I don't know if you can accurately state that a steel plate will have the same effect as an aluminum plate. Plus all the other confounding factors that Presto listed above.

I bought it. I like it. I'd do it again.

I have lots of experience modifying suspensions in my previous cars. I spent nearly $1000 modifying the suspension of my old RSX. The BT plate, while being a mild mod as far as I'm concerned, was worth it to me. If you like the OEM handling as is, then it won't be worth the trouble to you.

 

Its one thing for people who can't grasp "faith" to believe in the unseen.. its quite another when everyone that buys one likes it and still some can't believe........

ever heard of an unbelieving heart?... almost like they just can't believe in anything?.. LOL!... .. well actually its quite sad.....

Anyway.. like I said earlier.... if its so big of a deal to some.. I suspect they just can't give up the bucks.....

I personally could understand more if it really cost something worth worrying about.. but when so many have already vouched for it... it doesn't even take "faith" to accept...... its a given!......

I have one on both of my cars... wouldn't give them up......

We had quite a little world war III over this whole issue already in the past...

I've concluded that some just have too much fear and are paralyzed to do anything..... others have to meditate on it for a while, and other just say what the heck whats the worst that can happen?...
I was one of the latter... I don't regret it one bit.... I think its the most major improvement one can do to the car for the money invested.

Its quite amazing.. its so simple.. it does appear as a "snake oil" of sorts because it is so simple.

It would be much more believable if it had 15 little bars and all kinds of funky attachments to go everywhere.. but it doesn't... its just strategically placed where the prius needs it the most......

I certainly don't lose any sleep at night because someone doesn't want to buy it.... and my best guess is... Brian doesn't either!... LOL!

 

Why do you continue to badger this guy? I remember reading your posts in the past and asking the same questions and Bryan answering the SAME questions over and over? You ask the questions as though Bryan is on trial or something. If you want the plate buy it, if you don't want it then leave the poor guy alone!

I bought one of the BT plates for my 07 Touring and could not be happier with the quality of the product and the improvements it made to my cars ride and handling. Based upon the literally hundreds of pages of posts from PC members I made the purchase and never looked back.

For the 165.00 that they charge for the plate, I can not think of anything else that can make such improvements to the car for so little money.

Frank Boyle





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]413279[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Mar 27 2007, 06:11 PM) [snapback]413293[/snapback]</div>

Presto

Did you actually read what you quoted? If it proves that the stock plate doesn't do anything, it also proves that no plate does anything.

 

You've conducted a test where the addition of the stock plate made no difference to the deflection measurements. Your statement is correct in that the stock plate doesn't do anything, but what does that have to do with the BT plate being ineffective? That is what I think you are trying to imply. Please correct me, if I'm wrong.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusFTW @ Mar 27 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]413286[/snapback]</div>

Brian's phone number is in his signature:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 10:57 PM) [snapback]413339[/snapback]</div>

In which case the poster should remove the plate altogether and then see how his car drives.

But not for long, very fast or accelerate around curves.

:lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 27 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]413279[/snapback]</div>

Come on, based on everything that you have written on this subject, you never had any intention of buying Brian's product. You are not a potential customer, you are a persistent antagonizer and naysayer.