BT Tech Stiffening plate

MEMEMEMEMEMEME ME!!

 

no, no could it be me?? oh,man, just missed it !!!! DARN!!!!!

 

Darn,I guess I'll take 1002!........

Hey guys..... remember the topic here... sorry I started talking about wheels and all.... I think rabbit trails spice things up, but we have to find our way home or we're lost!

It would be ashame if the mod killed the thread because it got off topic and we didn't make it to 2000!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Oct 9 2007, 10:21 PM) [snapback]523394[/snapback]</div>

Okay, bringing it back to topic - has BTTech published any figures or numbers on how much stiffer his plate is compared to the OEM plate? Or has he published somewhere how much stiffer (in terms of deflection vs. load) the Prius chassis is with his plate installed?

Is this info buried in the thread somewhere (I can't find anything on search).

 

I posted this information some time ago.. A FEA (Finite Element Analysis) was conducted on our BT Tech plate and compared to the stock plate, ours was measured to be aprox 1800x stiffer.

I have attached some images for your viewing pleasure!



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 9 2007, 10:38 PM) [snapback]523399[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Oct 9 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]523394[/snapback]</div>

Frankly, when I started participating on this thread, I never thought it would make it all the way to 1,000 posts. I guess we start for 1,100 posts and work our way from there.

There is some more mileage (er, post counts) in pressing Brian for details on the new products.... How many days till Christmas?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 8 2007, 02:27 PM) [snapback]522623[/snapback]</div>

Have highlighted something that maybe "signifies" a difference. Is the US front stabiliser(anti-roll) bar ball jointed? Does it have gas pressurised shock absorbers? Is it the same diameter? Does it have the same spring rates? Is ride height the same?
I just checked ride height and the Australian Prius is 1.4 inches lower!!
Ground clearance - unladen (mm) 107 from http://www.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/Sp...396_842,00.html
Ground clearance 5.6 5.6 from http://www.toyota.com/prius/specs.html
107mm = 4.21260 inches

It is normal for most Japanese cars to have suspension set up for Australia. Australian drivers generally like cars to be a bit stiffer than the normal US offering but not as stiff as Europe. The variety of roads ranges from smooth freeways to rough gibber tracks. Pot holes are normal on back roads.

Standard wheels and tyres here are different to USA models. We only get 2 versions of Prius, a base model and the iTech which has all the fruit. All Australian Prius since 2004 have come fitted with Michelin Energy tyres in 195-60H 15. I don't believe the 16 inch wheels are available here. There is no touring edition there fore the larger rear spoiler isn't available here.

Like I said before I got the BT plate, I didn't have a problem with the handling of my Prius, I corner quite fast and apart from a slight tyre squeal it turns without protest. I may install a front strut brace in future to keep the front tyres flatter on the road but it will really only be to brag as I don't know it is needed with stock tyres.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Oct 9 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]523420[/snapback]</div>

Sorry Brian, nice colorful pictures but it doesn't tell anyone anything useful.

Can you publish the following straightforward numbers:
1. The torsion value placed on the plate (and why you chose this value)
2. The location of the load points
3. The displacement of the load points from unloaded condition
4. All the above for the OEM plate, for comparison

Following this, and as FEA is only as good as the actual item, have you verified the plate's stiffness characteristic by conducting a real test, i.e. loading a real plate and measuring the deformation.

I'm quite happy to believe your plate is stiffer than the OEM plate, but can you show us the deformations or the loading you measured on the Prius, so we can see that a stiffer plate will do anything? Since you did an FEA on the plate, you must have assumed a torsional loading value which represents the real world case, right? What is this value?

Cheers

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 02:56 AM) [snapback]523486[/snapback]</div>

Which begs the question, why did you get the BT plate?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 11 2007, 01:33 AM) [snapback]523630[/snapback]</div>

Everyone was raving about how good it is and I had the oportunity to buy one cheaper than the sale price so I did. Curiosity, I'm not as stingy as some, I will spend money to find things out. I was also happy with the fuel consumption of my Camry.

Why no comment about the suspension? Am I still speaking crap?

 

I have had my stiffening plate for a while now and would never think of removing it. It made a very noticable difference to me and since day one i have been happy with my purchase.

I have not been on the forum much and my how this thread has grown. The reason you have not seen Jimbo respond about your post regarding the suspension is because he is totally clueless and has been proven wrong. I think he is simply a troll that has come here to start more trouble. If you look you will see that he even started a thread "bt tech plate fact or fiction" that the moderator promptly closed down. Now bryan posted detailed information and this guy is asking for engineering specifications? Jimbo, do us a favor and please go away as you obviously have nothing to add to this discussion and are here simply to make trouble. We all of have seen your kind before and judging from your post count, you are probably the same guy that was here in the past stirring up the crap with a different screen name.

Frank Boyle


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]523634[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]523634[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]523634[/snapback]</div>

Jury is still out on the suspension spring rates, can't find any info on it.

US models have gas shocks - see http://autos.aol.com/toyota-prius-2007:8368-equipment

That site also has info on suspension types.

If you have a source for AUS specs, let us know. The easiest way to find out details for it is to ring the Toyota dealer and ask for the specs for the suspension components (spring rate, shock specs), or at least find out the part numbers.

 

Okay, Brian, next color offering...
the Rainbow BT plate.

Of course, I already HAVE my shiny **SHINY!!** black BT plate.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Oct 10 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]523654[/snapback]</div>

I've backed up all the assertions made here with references and analysis. Where is your analysis, Frank? Do you understand what a stress-strain curve is? Are you able to tell me what the numbers represent in the right hand side of the colorful FEA figures that Brian supplied? Are you also familiar with the concept of chassis support, and have determined for yourself that the Prius chassis can be stiffened at the point where the BT plate is attached (except by your subjective method of "feeling the difference")?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Oct 10 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]523654[/snapback]</div>

Is this the same thinking that you used to sell yourself on the BT plate?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Oct 10 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]523654[/snapback]</div>

Detailed information, is it Frank? In that case, can you tell me, from that "detailed info", what the deformation measurements are on the BT plate, what the torque loading was, and how it compared to the OEM plate? Can you also tell me how the 1600x stiffness figure was arrived at?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Oct 10 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]523654[/snapback]</div>

Frank, do us all a favor and stop whining, just because I think differently from you. I don't really care that you bought the BT plate, as long as you and everyone else who has bought one plate are happy. However, why are you so threatened by my questions which are for MY benefit? I checked ALL of Brian's posts and found no answers to the questions I posted.

I have seen your kind before, quite similar to Miss Cleo's happy customers who swear by her psychic ability, and attack everyone else who questions. If I follow your tenet, then I should subscribe to the Psychic Network too because of all the happy customers she has, which must be proof of her powers, right? Well, forgive me if I'm a bit more questioning than that.

 

Rainbow BT Tech plates???

I had a production run of these colors listed below but have sold out of them. We now have all black BT Tech plates in stock...





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Oct 10 2007, 12:49 PM) [snapback]523669[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 11 2007, 02:18 AM) [snapback]523665[/snapback]</div>

You asserted there is NO DIFFERENCE between the suspension on the Australian Prius and the US Prius but I showed you there is.

Did you only read what you chose to read? I think 1.4 inches different ride height on a car with only 5.6 inches ground clearance is pretty significant, don't you?

 

Jimbo Jones rattlin his bones!.... LOL!.....

Have you ever heard a picture is worth a thousand words?

If the stock plate does "anything" at all.. its obvious the Bt Plate does it better by the picture alone.

Your sounding like someone who will not accept sound reason and overwhelming proof from many multitudes of witnesses, but only trust numbers that can be easily argued and manipulated?

Witnesses mean allot, or they would not carry so much weight in a court of law... you said "the jury is still out".... thats where your totally wrong...

The jury has been "in" for a long time with overwhelming satisfaction of results and confidence enough to never give up their plate.

If you only trust numbers, you open yourself up to a wide margin of error.....

Some like numbers because they can argue them, while other trust in honest reports from sane people.

You can never argue against what I"ve experienced, but I can argue against what you "believe" all day long.

The plate works...... if your too scared to buy one to prove it to yourself along with many other skeptics who have finally tried, then you don't have the courage to try anything you cannot understand.....

The plate is not needed if you drive mediocre and don't challenge the suspension... its also not needed if you are too cheap to spend what a couple of tires would cost, and you also don't need one if you enjoy living in a hole and never trying anything new....

I'm pretty sure its not for you, you wouldn't like it... and "no one" is obliged to give or prove anything to you.

You know good and well if someone provided you numbers with 10 different test, you would only argue them all.

If you can't believe on your own, that sounds like a spiritual problem none of us can fix.

You only have 32 posts... that tells me:
1. Your very arrogant and presumptuous for someone so new and uneducated about this plate.... have you read much yet?
Before you answer that..... either answer may incriminate you!
If you have read allot, you should know better,.... but on the other hand if you haven't your very foolish to presume so much.
I'll try and give you the benifit of a doubt and say your new and have allot of reading to do to avoid appearing as a fool as others have already done.

or

2. Your a past heckler and troll and have merely changed your name.

or

3. Your a new troll that needs a new education?

If I have missed on all accounts, it would help if you would humble yourself and not assume your superior intelligence, reason, and common sense superceeds the hundreds of others out here!
There is a fair chance you have far less education than most of us out here, so don't come off so cocky.

Do you realize you are insulting everyone out here that supports this plate to negate all the past threads and proof as bunk?

I'm assuming you are quite educated in "one" field and that blinds you to balance and understanding in all the others?... in other words... "no common sense".

Are you attempting to reinvent the wheel?

If so... go build your own wheel and chisel it out of your own stone.... we like our wheel just fine and are sorry for you that you feel the need to build your own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]523714[/snapback]</div>

So you did. However, what do you make of this publication from NRMA, whcih states that their measured ground clearance for the Prius is 132 mm (5.2 inches)?
https://www.aaa.asn.au/roadtests/reports/269.pdf
Who do we believe, you or the NRMA?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]523714[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it is. And since I have more faith in the NRMA, I think you need to measure your clearance again, unencumbered. Also note, the Toyota.com.au site states that the measurements are APPROXIMATE only.

Now how about you look into the other items like spring rates and shocks?

 

I have and like the BT Plate a lot. What I notice is that the car is much more stable at highway speeds.

But jeez, from a cost/benefit analysis, this thread has gotten pretty useless. 1000 posts, and only about 10 useful ones. JimboJones seemed to have raised legitimate questions or issues. But for the most part, all he gets here are ad hominem attacks. If this thread lives to be 2000 posts long, my guess is that it will still have only about 10 truly useful ones.

 

Really? How can you tell the difference in chassis stiffness by looking at a picture of the BT plate?

Do you mean to say that if I see a measurement of the torsional stiffness of the BT plate against a load, and it is reproducible, that someone can manipulate that measurement value? It either flexes by amount X, or it does not.

What about seeing the measurement of the deflection of a steel rod and measuring that, and it is reproducible, can that number be manipulated? It either flexes by amount Y, or it does not.

Your "overwhelming proof" is no proof at all, but opinions. Scientific proof requires quantification of data and reproducibility, something that BT Tech is not willing or unable to produce.

I said the jury is still out on whether the SUSPENSION is different between US and AUS models.

I've never doubted the degree of satsifaction of those who are happy with their purchase. That isn't even the point.

This cannot be more wrong. Do you realize that the only reason you're enjoying the benefits of your Prius is because of all the science and engineering that went into it? Can you understand that there has been much numerical analysis that went into designing, verifying and testing the vehicle? Do you also realize that the only reason you are able to drive your Prius is because of all the numerical proof that Toyota has provided to the various international committees, to ensure that the vehicle complies with all the safety, performance, reliability and maintainability standards for automobiles?

Or maybe you think that some guy from Toyota just drew a skecth of the Prius, slapped a mower engine to it and started selling it, and is now just relying on your word that it's a good car?

No, scientists, engineers, physicists, mathematicians and so forth like numbers because they offer scientific proof, something that can be analysed, verified that it follows the laws of physics, and reproduced by anyone. Numbers take subjectivity out of the equation.

Sure, but your explanation for your experiences will not necessarily be correct. My beliefs are based on the laws of physics, and I can prove them to you mathematically. What are your experiences based on, feelings?

Why should I spend money calling Miss Cleo's psychic hotline, just to try it out? I can just ask Miss Cleo herself for some proof that she is indeed able to see the future. And no, testimony from happy customers won't cut it.

Looks to me like you're trying really hard to justify your purchase.

Not even BT Tech? Let's see, if someone's peddling a perpetual motion machine to you, you wouldn't even ask for proof if it works?

And if the numbers stand up to scrutiny, then the proof stands as true. That's how things are done in the scientific community, the same community that makes it posible for you to enjoy all your mod cons.

Well it's clear you have nothing for me, but that's ok.

Tell me, "windstrings", how many posts should someone send out in this site before s/he is allowed to ask questions?

By whom, by you?

I've read a lot of opinions, and very little science.

Why thanks, windtrings, I appreciate your role in this website as judge and immaculate finger pointer.

It's "you're", not "your".
It's "supersedes", not "superceeds".
A little thing, but quite annoying. It also tells me the level of education you have, and explains your fear of science and numbers.

I'm happy to compare educational qualifications with you, when you're ready, windstrings. PM me if you wish to remain anonymous to everyone else.

I realize I'm threatening your beliefs by my questions, and you're getting defensive about it.

I though you said I have far less education than you, now you're saying I don't?

I've never included any ad hominem attacks on people in my posts, nor any insults to people's beliefs - and I've only asked technical questions which shouldn't bother those that have them to back up their statements. However, people like you write long posts which yield no useful information, only personal attacks and insults - it does tell me a lot about your intellectual capacity.