BT Tech Stiffening plate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 31 2007, 08:25 PM) [snapback]415713[/snapback]</div>

I got my two in just about a week... I think it sometimes matters as to whether they are backordered or not... as they are much of the time.. but then when another lot comes out.. there are "lots" around but that seems pretty shortlived before the supply dwindles again.

Well... my hats off to you for one thing... at least your willing to do your own test instead just bitch and gripe about stuff you don't know about.

Of course, until you get the plate and start testing.... you are still in the guessing, assuming, and predicting phase.

I think it will be fun for anybody to do any test they want as long as they are trying to be as honest as they can and realize the complexity of doing it right.

There have been allot of folks out here who have tried to "defame" the plate without any reasonable merit.
You have to expect there is suspicion you will attempt to do the same except add the weight of some "fabricated" test results.

No one out here is afraid of the truth... but no one wants lies, deception and fabrication.

I'm absolutely positive my plates have made a big difference... but thats flying down the road, twist and turns around corners, abrupt lane changes and general suspension torques and stresses that can only be done at higher speeds and encountering abrupt wind gusts etc.

Doing a test sitting still is not the same as driving 70mph around a corner or turn......

so whatever you test you do, it will need to be something that will convince you, and we will all be excited to hear your results to see if we can identify with what you say.... but don't expect much buyin if there is the smell of deception or lazy sloppy efforts to reproduce something that everyone else out here has not found to be true themselves...

Good luck!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 31 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]415794[/snapback]</div>

Thank you!

I'll be back when I have something to share.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 30 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]414981[/snapback]</div>

As Procol Harem stated long ago:
"There is no reason
and the truth is plain to see."

For many decades the scientific community published peer reviewed articles on flogiston until it shall we say blew away. You of course remember when malaria was caused by mosiquitos -- before that, swamp air. Science is far less and far more than the eye can see.

Good luck!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Mar 31 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]415457[/snapback]</div>

Hi Syclone,

Could you please prove that statement in the first sentance of your first paragraph, PLEASE.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FreshAirGuy @ Apr 1 2007, 07:08 AM) [snapback]415934[/snapback]</div>

Your thought is sincerely appreciated!

The order is in and confirmed. The check is in the mail. Now for the waiting. I never was a patient waiter.


While I was on line with the order, I found this picture of the plate, installed (below). It is nothing new, of course.

The operation of the plate is quite simple. When the car body flexes, it twists a little and tries to twist the plate. It is as if each end of the plate was a "teeter tottter" like the second picture. The ten weights on the "teeter totter" are each the same. You can see that one weight can hold nine weights in the air when it has the advantage which you can see.

It is like that in the car. The total twisting of the car measured at the outside edge is about 7 1/2 inches (adding the twist to the left with the twist to the right). The total twisting between the ends of the BT plate is about 1/8 inch (a difference of 60 times). That is as if the long side of the "teeter totter" was 60 times longer than the short side of the "teeter totter". If the force of the twist by the car was actually multiplied that much, a twist with a force of just 1 inch pound would need to be met with a resistance of a stiffness of 60 inch pounds to be stopped.

That is a ridiculously tremendious challenge for the BT plate. The disadvantage it must deal with probably isn't nearly that great. Further, the BT plate could do useful work without totally stopping the twist. But the BT plate still is likely to be at a HUGH disadvantage. As they say, it "has the short end of the stick".

Is the BT plate up to the challenge? That is the next question.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 31 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]415794[/snapback]</div>

To sum up..."I'm going to write very long, pushy, abrasive posts repeatedly that complain about how some people complain about the BT Plate, and the only suggestion I'll pound over and over and over and over and over is that they buy it, then they'll see that it works. Tests are for wimps. Why would you want to know something works before buying it? Even now that you (Allannde) are actually buying a plate, you're still probably going to make up a fake test and try to lie to everyone."

Believe it or not, $165 is a lot for some of us, and I can't think of another instance where I'd put down that kind of money for a product that I couldn't research on the web except through the postings of this website. I understand it's a small business deal that is set up specifically through/for PC, so would still consider it, but WHY STOP DIALOG? That seems to be your big point, WS, is "shut up and buy it!" You have made your point that the plate works for you "seeing is believing" and that hundreds of others are likewise satisfied. It doesn't explain the tone of your posts, or how Allannde or anyone else trying to do tests on the plate hurts you or others. You already have your plates. Go enjoy them. You're obviously NOT going to convince some of us with your heavy-handed method, so you might as well give it up.

What exactly would the point be of someone trying to "defame" the plate, as you said, anyways? I don't see that happening in this thread. I see people asking legitimate questions and trying to sort them out. Allannde has no incentive for making up false test data, in fact, after buying the plate, he has a $165 investment giving him the hope that it WILL work. I think he'll probably have the same experience all the others describe (unscientific, but definitely felt), but I'm curious to see what someone skeptical gets out of it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Apr 1 2007, 08:32 PM) [snapback]416190[/snapback]</div>

No! Do my eyes deceive me? What is the world coming to? First the nefarious Squid is really truly gone, then the fundies and the atheists bond over bicycles, and now Allannde's buying a plate?! Wonders never cease!

This is just for testing purposes, right, not because you actually believe it works? If by some miraculous conversion you're forced to admit you like it, I don't think I'm inclined to take your word for it. I expect thoroughly exhaustive testing, infinite finite analysis, and irrefutable scientific evidence, all fully documented, corroborated, peer reviewed, and published in a reputable international journal of unquestionable stature. :blink: :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Apr 1 2007, 08:38 PM) [snapback]416297[/snapback]</div>

Hello hyo silver

Your "handle" always gets my attention. I enjoyed listening to the "Lone Ranger" on the radio a long time ago.

You read something into my views which is not there. When I say questioning things about the BT plate it is not to defame it, my purpose is to stimulate a response. I am trying to get information because I really am curious. If I was sure that the BT plate was junk, I wouldn't give it another minute of my time. It seems to me that supporters who do not respond to questioning with support are lazy. To "circle the wagons" rather than engage in honest discussion only serves to polarize when the worth while thing to do is bring people together. Bring someone on to the team and the team is stronger. Send that person away and all that you have is a clique which is no stronger than it was.

Frankly, some of the responses I see, seem very close to paranoid. Why, I wonder, would someone have such a strong reaction about something which is so simple as the BT plate? Of course, one answer is that it is a miraculous product. If so, the results, when it comes should be VERY obvious VERY quickly. If the BT plate turns out to have only subtle benefits or very hard to measure effects, then the suggestion that there is some kind of "mass hysteria" may be on the mark.

It is very possible that you will not be persuaded by anything I report no matter how I report it. I am fine with that. I have no need to cause you discomfort if you are comfortable with your point of view. The people with whom I hope to communicate are those who share my curiosity about the BT plate.

On the other hand, you might just be a little curious about the results of this exchange.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Apr 2 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]416465[/snapback]</div>

I, for one, am curious to learn what you think of the Plate.

Despite my best efforts, I've high-centered mine once now on an oddly angled driveway. I think my biggest concern actually has to do with not catching it on something...and either ripping it/the mounting bolts off, or causing some major bendage to the unibody in that area.

As you can see, it does hang a bit lower than the stock stamped steel unit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Apr 2 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]416465[/snapback]</div>

Hello, Allannde. Sorry, I was teasing you. My entire post was totally tongue in cheek, and I meant no offense. I will accept your conclusion, yay or nay, and take you at your word. At the same time, with all due respect, I question how such a thing can be tested without driving the car with the part installed. When I first got my Prius, I was very disappointed in the handling. I knew better than to expect anything remotely resembling a Lotus, yet the Prius felt like it was hinged in the middle, and had a tendency to wander. The steering felt kind of 'dead', yet without any play, so that every little movement of the steering wheel was transmitted to the tires. After unlearning my habit of correcting for 'steering play' on older, larger cars, the wandering mostly went away. Installing the BT brace made a big improvement to the handling, and in all honesty, I really did feel the difference in the first corner. My intuitive mind accepts that it works by making the chassis stiffer, but I'm also stubborn enough not to be swayed by uninformed opinion. I know that I can feel it, and whatever numbers or theories anyone comes up with isn't going to change that. So, I can appreciate you being stubborn, too, and I am curious to know what you think. I was just kidding about the irrefutable scientific evidence.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Apr 2 2007, 03:22 PM) [snapback]416584[/snapback]</div>

I concur... I can't or don't have evidence that proves what I think I know.. but if you you search back to my initial impressions.. I felt like I was in a sports car... since I"ve never owned a sports car, I admitted.. maybe it was still far short of what one is actually like, but in all reality.... I do feel I can "dodge" a dime laying on the road. The steering is very tight and responsive and now the body follows suit with what the steering wheel is telling it to do.
I would not go back unless I had a similiar alternative.

 

Hi hyo silver

Absolutely no offense taken. I am sorry I didn't detect the tease. When you play it straight sometimes you come across as - well - square.

It is quite reasonable to question one like me who hasn't driven with the BT plate. I had to ask myself if it was worth the cost of the BT plate to be credible in what I said even if I sensed that I was on to something without that. I concluded that I was not sure of myself, even, if I didn't have "hands on" experience with the BT plate. It is taking a chance, because I remain skeptical. I don't think my mind is closed. I agree that some might question my faith before the BT plate altar.

I am glad to note your report on the problems with handling and the experience with change by the BT plate. It adds to my understandings of what to look for. Your comment that you felt it on the first corner was especially interesting. I will be watching for that. If that turns out to be an expectable result, this is significant. The next question is "How significant?" I hope to address that. We will see if I can.

You will hear more about what I have discoverd about the BT plate than what I think of it. This seems a more respectful way to deal with a controversial issue. I hope that the results will be useful.

 

Well I installed my BT Tech Plate today. It seemed rather simple. The one thing I'm not positively sure is that it is torqued to 17 lbs. I think it is, but I'm not 100% sure. The reason I say that I'm not 100% sure is that I used ramps to do the install and I couldn't for the life of me see the rod on the torque wrench where it was pointing to. I believe I have a rough idea, but like I said I'm not 100% sure. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusFTW @ Apr 2 2007, 09:08 PM) [snapback]416773[/snapback]</div>

If you take a "normal" wrench and give a good healthy snug tighten, you should be close....

I don't mean break your hands... just very snug.

If the wrench is over about 12 inches long, you will probrably go too far.

I can't remember for sure.. but I think once they hit bottom and are tight.. maybe another half turn?
Maybe someone else can comment.


Funny people feel the plate is expensive.... If you can afford the car in the first place, the plate is nothing.....

Just imagine getting slightly better tires, divided by four of them... that means its the same as spending another 40.00 each per tire.

Tires go bad and wear out.. the plate is forever.

If it works at all to any degree.. its worth it.

 

Now for a serious question.

Has anybody ever re-checked an installed BT Plate and found that it needed re-torquing?

Mine has been in for 6 or 7 months now and I wondering if I might need to give it a tweak when the weather warms up enough to get my old bones under the car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Apr 3 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]417254[/snapback]</div>

I still haven't gotten a "round toit". Anyway, I intend to someday. But you'll probably beat me to it.
I think mine has been on since some time in October.

Dave M.

 

Has anyone that bought the plate switched back to the factory one after some time to see if they noticed a difference again?

Has anyone removed the factory plate and seen what it drives like without any plate at all?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Les Gas @ Apr 3 2007, 10:16 PM) [snapback]417437[/snapback]</div>

I noticed a huge difference. I used to feel like I was fighting the car on curves to stay in the lane. Now, I and the car are one, gliding around curves in complete confidence I still think that any attempt to measure stiffness of the body in a static mode is not representative of what it does under dynamic loads.

I don't think I could bring myself to remove it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoMoShocks @ Apr 3 2007, 09:29 PM) [snapback]417447[/snapback]</div>

Hello NoMoShocks

I would be very interested to learn the basis for your understanding which is quoted above. Would it be simpler just to make a reference?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoMoShocks @ Apr 4 2007, 12:29 AM) [snapback]417447[/snapback]</div>

I'm sure someone will create a test to prove you are just hallucinating!... LOL! :lol: :lol:



I agree.... putting one tire off the ground and torquing the car while sitting still is one form of test.. but its not the same as flying down the road and 70 or 80 taking the curves of the freeways etc along with its bumps, eneven road surfaces and the crazy surfaces of bridges etc with wind and gust all working against you at the same time pushing on your side from a cross wind etc.