BT Stiffening Plate Review

i post this with extreme hesitation but will do so with the usual disclaimer. my SO immediately recognized the difference in handling when i got my 06. up until this time, she did not know about the plate (i had mentioned it to her when we first met but i KNOW she did not register its meaning or purpose. her brain is simply not wired that way plus i kinda made a promise to stop obsessing about my Prius)

now i have to say, i didnt notice a lot of difference (to be honest with ya, with 3½ weeks between one to the other, i didnt really notice anything at all although was not really looking for anything.)

i dont have what i feel is wandering on the freeway or anything like that but i have been trying to get a baseline of feeling for how the car feels in 3 different key areas. (these areas were picked because of her paranoia) one being old railroad tracks on a curve about 120º with its usual hump. makes for an interesting feel when going over the tracks at nearly any speed.

but she does not know about the BT plate order. so if it arrives without her knowledge (was scheduled for delivery on wed but we have had a lot of flooding here, so hoping for delivery today and she is at work so today would be perfect) i will put it on and off. i have a garage with floor jacks so the install takes less than 10 mins really. so i will try it and see if she brings up anything.

we do have a good trip to try it on. have a family thing in Raymond which involves an hour drive thru logging country with a lot of hills, twists, turns, etc. will be going thanksgiving and dec 16th (part 1 of a 6 part x-mas celebration) i will try one trip with and one without. should be a fairly good trial.

**DISCLAIMER**

this is in no way a testimonial or statement of any claimed fact regarding the performance of the BT plate. all statements expressed herein are those of the poster and are only opinions based on personal impressions, experiences, and previous actions performed in said vehicles on road conditions that have not been certified to be consistent or applicable to any controlled testing situation.

**DISCLAIMER**

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 10 2006, 10:27 AM) [snapback]346924[/snapback]</div>

Ha!... your funny!... It will be fun to hear the results. If she does not notice, it may not be too significant as reasons stated earlier, but if she does, it will be all the more proof... coming from someone who is not even looking would be really impressive!

Have you made that trip east on 12 to Yakama and then south to the gorge and back west again to I-205?
You can do it in a day... man is it pretty, you feel like your in the Rockies... I haven't tried doubling back north your direction from Yakama, I bet thats nice too.
Traveling East on 12, a few miles before you get to Yakama, there is an Elk sanctuary, where they feed them and there and hundreds.. maybe thousands that come out of the mountains to feed on the free hay.
Antelope are nearby too in the hills if you just look for them.

Its a nice diversion from the City life if you have a day.

 

i have made that trip a few times but not since i got my Prius and as you know, it would be VERY difficult now after the deluge we have had in the past week. all the roads to Mt. Rainer are washed out along with most roads heading to the hills.

in the Puget Sound region, we had 10 inches of rain in 2 days (average for Nov is 5.9") as you know, that means the mountains had 3 times that much.

now as i type, we are experiencing the initial onslaught of a new storm, winds expected to be in the 50's so should be interesting.

i guess, cant complain, its been 3 winters since we have anything at all to talk about. funny, last month, it was predicted to be much warmer and drier than normal continuing the pattern of the past 3 years. who knows?? still early yet. might actually happen. (actually it is warm, its 62º right now at 8:30 AM)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 10 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]346947[/snapback]</div>

If I come back, it will be only for the Summer... hard to beat.. especially if your not working and have time to go play and tour.

We are all hoping the Rains will finish the convincing needed to get the rest of the relatives to move down.. many of them are on the fence.

Well if you get rained out.. jump in your prius and drive down... we have talked a while now together on PC.... you will always have a place to stay should you stroll this way!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Mar 8 2006, 07:33 PM) [snapback]222510[/snapback]</div>

Sorry if I have jumped in at the wrong msg. point. Brian, I just installed the BT Plate and the directions said to use 17 ft-lbs of torque....on my 2007 Prius. I have read on this thread several times that 24 ft-lbs was used. I used 17 as directed....what gives...did I do the right thing? Thx George

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ggeeman @ Nov 10 2006, 08:32 PM) [snapback]347259[/snapback]</div>

Hmmmmm...

My instructions say 17 ft-lbs., I've seen 24 here, too, and Brian himself said that after he'd had the plate on his car for a while, he checked the torque and it was at 20.

I'm confused.

About this, I mean...

 

17-20 ft/lbs is the revised torque spec on our stiffening plate. There were 3 instances where people have mis-read their torque wrench and applied too much torque and snapped the bolt. This is the reason for the revised torque spec as it leaves more room for error.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 10 2006, 10:44 PM) [snapback]347263[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 10 2006, 07:56 PM) [snapback]347267[/snapback]</div>

Thank you very much for the reply. I had one other question. The OEM brace has bolts that include a washer and lock washer for each. The BT Brace has just the washer. Should go pick up a compatible lock washer for each bolt since the OEM had them? I doubt that it would come loose but now I have that thought stuck in my head, PS I have noticed a slightly firmer handling to the car and I like it. So after two days put me on the positive/in favor side. Thank you George

 

Just ordered my BT stiffening plate today.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ggeeman @ Nov 11 2006, 06:09 AM) [snapback]347382[/snapback]</div>

ggeeman.. Brian may have taken off today since its the weekend I don't know.. but unless he corrects me... lock washers never hurt, but since your torqueing it, they should not be needed.
I think the tightness is beyond where lock washers would really even do anything.

The only thing they are good for is "if" it somehow worked loose, then the lock washer would prevent or delay it coming all the way out.. but I've never heard of that.

I have heard a few reports of torque loosening over time when checked again, but I have not experienced this myself. Nor have I heard of any ever falling out.

 

I am here!! Weekends off??

As long as you toque the supplied stainless steel bolts to the correct torque you are good to go. I have almost 36K on mine and I checked the torque last week and it was perfect.

Part of the design was for the bolts to be flush with the stiffening plate. You will notice that when you tighten the bolts it is recessed into the plate so there is nothing sticking out.






<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 11 2006, 11:51 PM) [snapback]347652[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 11 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]347652[/snapback]</div>

I thought the braces came with Loctite (or something similar) already on the bolts. That would help hold them in place.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Nov 12 2006, 02:17 PM) [snapback]347884[/snapback]</div>

Actually loctite makes this stuff too, but its not loctite per se....
I'm I'm right, its "anti-seize compound".
Its actually grease designed so you "can" get them off should you ever want to.
It keeps them from seizing in place from rust etc.

A great item to use on all bolts that are torqued if you ever want to get it off again later!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 12 2006, 12:21 PM) [snapback]347887[/snapback]</div>

Ahh, like you'd put on spark plugs. OK, I knew something was on the bolts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Nov 12 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]347888[/snapback]</div>

When I lived in washington, I had a hydroelectric system I built and it had a 4.5 inch slicon bronze pelton wheel that had a threaded hole in the center than hooked to a big Ford motorcraft alterator with oversized bridge and stator..
but anyway.. when I sold the place... about 5 years later the guy took off the wheel and put it back on without the antiseize grease. Keep in mind this thing is drenched in water all the time!

The next time he went to get it off.. he couldn't at all.. I mean we had to destroy the pelton wheel and leterally beat on it with a hammer to get it to come loose. That was after liquid wrench several times and waiting several days in betweent treatments.

Normally thats a very easy job, you can do with a screwdriver to lock the alternator and one hand to loosen the wheel..... too bad!

Beware if you don't use the antiseize grease on anybolt thats torqued if you ever need to get it off again!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 10 2006, 08:56 PM) [snapback]347267[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for the info! Sometimes I come off as kind of strident, I know, when I don't mean to be so...

Will say that I remain a 'plate believer,' I'm quite happy with the improvements to my car, and appreciate your customer service/responses, too!!

--Natalie

 

No problem Natalie. I am happy to see that you like our stiffening plate!!


If you have any further questions please let me know.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 14 2006, 07:13 PM) [snapback]349068[/snapback]</div>

Exactly Windstrings... We pre-install anti-seize compound on all of the stainless bolts that come with each stiffening plate. It's purpose is to make installation easier and when applying torque to each bolt. It also insures that it each bolt is torqued evenly and exact. Having the anti-seize compound also aids in removing the bolt if for whatever reason the stiffening plate has to be removed.






<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 12 2006, 05:21 PM) [snapback]347887[/snapback]</div>

 

Ray,
I like your idea of doing a blind test conducted by a party which has no stake in the outcome of the test. Someone else also suggested static tests of some sort which would also be good, although probably not necessarily measuring the same dynamic forces as a driving test. However, unless it's made of one of those miracle polymers that stiffen on impact but not on gradual pressure, something increasing dynamic stiffness will likely increase static stiffness at least somewhat as well.

Maybe we can take this thread down a path of test design and critique, and then come up with something that can be practical (in terms of time and other commitments) yet robust enough to address most concerns. Even if it's something beyond your abilities/willingness, at least somebody if interested might attempt it.

Dynamic tests on a course (slalom/whatever)
1. Find two Priuses of the same vintage/feature level, same tires/pressure/alignment, no extra weight- obviously you don't want something like VSC kicking in on one messing up any cross comparison. Although conceivably it could be tested w/ and w/o on one vehicle, rather than A/B on two vehicles, the difference may be so subtle that without the ability to switch from one to the other within seconds or at most minutes, the average person cannot tell. If shown two swatches of similar white paint one after another separated by even 5 minutes, I bet lots of people couldn't tell which was brighter.
2. On the A/B test, the installer just installs them in a garage out of sight of any of the testers, making sure that both stock and BT plates are torqued the same. Once done he doesn't witness any of the tests. None of the testers are allowed to bend down to try and see what's installed. Run the test with as many testers as you can muster up. Have them each do their test twice at least with each vehicle. Have them pick the stiffer vehicle or state no difference.
3. Run the test a second time, with the BT plate switched to the other vehicle, or not. Again only the installer knows.
4. Run the test a third time, with the BT plate switched to the other vehicle, or not, although each vehicle should get the BT plate at least on one of the three test run sets, just in case the vehicles still are really different somehow unaccounted for.

Static tests in the garage doable on one or both cars
1. If the plate really stiffens up the chassis of the car somehow, it should be measurable- not sure what the test is- jack up left or right rear to several heights, and measure the lift on the other side, front and rear? Repeat at least a few times to see how precise the difference is.

Obviously the static test doesn't stress the frame as much as the dynamic test so the plate could do something that the static test doesn't stress enough to measure any difference. Any ideas to fix this are welcome- put a 150 lb weight (= passenger) on the unjacked side trunk or rear seat? Anyway, hope you see where this is going.

Some of these test elements may be too onerous to perform and of limited benefit, so suggestions on what to remove from the test and what is lost or extraneous as a result also are welcome.

If I'm not mistaken, BT offers a refund if not satisfied, so at most one is out shipping. I'd be willing to kick in a few bucks to the shipping return fund for anyone taking this on. Maybe this should be made into a new thread "Designing a BT Plate test".

Don

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 9 2006, 12:36 AM) [snapback]346106[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Don Y @ Nov 14 2006, 10:36 PM) [snapback]349312[/snapback]</div>

My only concern about a "double blind test" where they don't know they are being tested, verses a blind test is that the person getting tested needs to be someone that would notice subtile changes barring a wheel falling off.

As I've stated before.. some people just don't listen to thier cars... and can't hear them over thier radios blasting, cell phones and doing their makeup in the mirror! and/or yelling at the kids.

As long as they normally are attuned to thier car "male or female" , then it would be a reasonable test, otherwise its not fair.

Would you stick your dog in the road or would you step in the road to test if such a person was really paying attention? :lol:

 

did anyone mention a double blind test? double blinds are in drug tests so that the person applying the treatment doesn't tip off the testee. unless prii are now "kit" in knight rider, having the installer have no contact (no conversation, viewing, or interaction with the cars in view of testers) will suffice.

at least some of the people taking the test care enough about car performance to take their time to do it, so it's not like having the princess clueless about the bowling ball under her mattress. even preselect for people previously vaguely or extremely dissatisfied with prius handling (e.g. test drove but didn't buy because of the handling issues), but it'd be somewhat more difficult to find enough people. even profile all the testers and their usual vehicles and include that as part of the results reporting.
a. stunt car driver- 2006 ford gt
b. professional road tester for bmw- 2007 525
c. student 2003 honda si
d. accountant 2004 toyota prius
e. wal-mart sales associate 1996 ford escort

then you could go by straight stats (how many people guessed right how much of the time) or break it down to your heart's content (e.g. b got it right all the time, but even a and c only guessed right 2/3 of the tests). then you would be able to say, gee i'm between c & d and if c had a hard time telling then it's a subtle effect if anything. if e is the only one to get it right all the time, then either he just got lucky (1/2^3=1/8 of the time you would get it right just guessing) or deserves b's job.

for the static jack test if the initial test and test +150lb cargo or rear passenger test made no diff, then i would try cranking up the cargo+passenger weight +50, +50, +50. if 300lb passenger+cargo on the unjacked side doesn't deflect a measurable amount with the stock or no plate, gosh that's a subtle/no effect.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 15 2006, 11:04 AM) [snapback]349499[/snapback]</div>