BT Stiffening Plate Review

wingstrings... please stop assuming and putting words in other's mouth. I never said I was embarrassed by you "uncovering" the fact that I know BobZ. Everybody that belongs to the LIPOG knows BobZ. So what? How's that contributing to this discussion? I did not make any conclusions to if the plate works or not. I did not say it will, and I did not say it won't. I just have questions and concerns.

Engineers don't sit around computers whole day long. We do real world tests after computer simulations in case you don't know. So don't lecture me on this.

My issue with this is that there's no real credible test that shows the plate really work. Many users claim it work after they pay the money for it. The result is not scientific and biased. Again, I m not saying it does not work.

Another concern that I had is about creating stress points on other parts of the chassis. First, before wingstrings putting words into my mouth again, I never claim I'm an expert in this field. Many tall buildings/bridges are built to flex as wind blows on them to maintain structural integrity. The fact that the stock plate has certain degree of flex, I wonder if Toyota did that on purpose so that the whole chassis flex to a degree within their spec. Since the BT plate is several thousand times harder to flex (I saw the diagram posted by Brain over at PriusOnline), will this prevent that condition and create unwanted stress points on other parts of the chassis? Again, this is a concern. I'm not saying this WILL happen.

wingstrings, stop making personal attacks and irrelevant claims. You are not contributing. I will join again when we can have mature and logical discussions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(staze @ Nov 9 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]346360[/snapback]</div>

I think there are numerous variables where most cannot be controlled. Two things come to mind: how you conduct the "blind test" and the sensitivity of the tester. As IsrAmeriPrius wrote, "Some folks cannot tell the difference between Two Bucks Chuck and Château Lafite-Rothschild." Also, if you don't say anything has changed, it's very possible that your wife or friend might notice changes but not mention it. Just because they didn't say anything wouldn't necessarily mean they didn't feel any change.

One difference is most of the people that don't believe the brace would make a difference haven't tried it while most of the people that believe it helps are already satisfied customers. Therefore, no, I don't think your blind test would do much to change people's opinions but I would still be interested to hear the results if you decide to do it.

 

Honestly, the reason I bought the touring because I thought the standard felt pretty sloppy on the test drive roads (which are pretty curvy).

A blind test would mean that I would NOT tell her to pay attention to changes... but... oh well.

Just thought I would ask.

Figure I'll get the plate while the sale is on and install it sometime around christmas before my first real road trip, but after several longer trips. Might not even report my findings since as you said, it won't make any difference unless someone tries themselves.

As a state employee, the best test is something I can't really do. It would be to buy half a dozen of the plates, and install them in some of the State Motor pool Cars, and then recruit several people to drive the cars over specific roads. Obviously with a control, and swapping drivers at some point. Maybe if the maker wants to contact me, I could see what I could do... but again, it sounds like it wouldn't make much difference.

Thanks for the quick reply...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(staze @ Nov 9 2006, 12:59 PM) [snapback]346392[/snapback]</div>

Well, she may notice but I doubt it... In medicine...that is "not" the definition of how a blind test is conducted.

The recipent of the medicine "knows" they are taking something... just whether its real or not is not told to them and they await the response.

In your scenario, you would have to administer the medication without them even knowing they are getting medicated and then see if they notice anything... but since they will not even be looking for changes.. they can overlook alot that in reality is really going on.

In a blind test, its ok they know there is a test going on and some ideal expectations should there be any change so they know what to look for... just dont' tell them when they have the real or the fake!

 

Windstrings are you in the Houston area and if so would you be willing to work with me on doing a test on the plates.

Ray

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Nov 9 2006, 12:50 PM) [snapback]346383[/snapback]</div>

True, I only said you "seemed" embarrassed, thats an impression you gave me that you cannot judge as I cannot judge whether you really felt embarrassed?.. feel better?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Nov 9 2006, 12:50 PM) [snapback]346383[/snapback]</div>

You missed that too.. I'll repost

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Nov 9 2006, 12:50 PM) [snapback]346383[/snapback]</div>

you made your point clear

You want "real credible" evidence and its been said there is none. You have to get over that hard one.

The issue of the rest of the frame cracking has been discussed in the past also and Its a credible discussion.

I suppose when you improve any link in the chain, that makes the next weakest link to be examined.

I'm not an engineer, but since the bolts themselves are fastened to solid material, I think the rest of the give and take in the frame is shared or distributed evenly enough that shouldn't be an issue. The plate should "save" the rest of the body and frame if anything due to less flex!

Good luck getting data to confirm that one!

Some things you will just never know until Time has gone under the bridge.
With regular reasonable driving, it should never be an issue, if you took it out on the race track everyday, the added support in handling and steering from the brace may indeed transfer the stress to a more vulnerable piece and affect its integrity. Since no one is using the prius as an Indy car, we should be good.
And cars that are used in such fashion have to be completely reworked.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 9 2006, 01:20 PM) [snapback]346405[/snapback]</div>

I"m in Central Texas Ray.. about 4.5 - 5 hours from you.

I did live there almost 30 years.... man you have to get out of that place!!!!

 

Hi Windstrings, you may have missed my earlier question. Are you in the Houston area and would you be willing to help me do some test on the BT Plate.

Thanks
Ray

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 9 2006, 01:56 PM) [snapback]346434[/snapback]</div>

Look at the bottom of the post above yours.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 9 2006, 04:59 PM) [snapback]346436[/snapback]</div>

Sorry I missed it. Oh well. If your wver down in Houston for any length of time maybe we can do the test together.

Ray

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 9 2006, 02:05 PM) [snapback]346442[/snapback]</div>

My mom lives there, but I'm always in a huff when I go through.. ususally its to take her up here.

The only way I would want to be involved is with anothers car.. as I eleborated quite extensively before... I don't want to mess with mine... Its my baby!

 

Presto, from what I understand the "touring" model consists of higher rate springs and re-valved shocks. My understanding is that the sway bars are identical to the 2004-2006 MY. The stock stiffening plate is still there unchanged from the previous model years as well.

Hope this helps...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Nov 9 2006, 03:33 PM) [snapback]346366[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Nov 8 2006, 08:33 PM) [snapback]346073[/snapback]</div>

Well Ron, I finally got around to installing the BT plate this afternoon.

On 1, too early to tell on much of it. My baldness still isn't cured, and my sex life won't improve until next Monday evening when my wife gets back from her trip to California.

To be honest, I can't say anything definitively. After installing it, I took a little trip (about 30 miles) on a country road I occasionally drive on. Basically, I found it to be a relaxing drive at speeds higher than I usually use on that road. I found my speed drifting up without thinking about it. OTOH, my mileage was poorer than usual. I usually don't drive winding roads at 60 - 75 mph. Does it corner better? I can't say for certain. A lot of the corners I took at much higher speeds than I usually do, but when I started to get too much confidence I ended up having to slow down below 60 on one I expected to do faster. I don't remember if that was one with a 35 or 45 suggested speed.

Overall, I couldn't say anything isn't placebo effect, but I'm still not sorry I installed it. I'll have to wait to see what happens when I get under conditions that I'd previously noticed very poor handling on.

Anyway, even if it is placebo, I feel more comforable driving with it than I did without it.

Incidently, even on ramps I couldn't slide completely under the car. I spent most of the installation time getting out from one side of the car and going over the the other side. Back and forth several times installing the screws first on one side and then the other. Repeating to torque part way up, etc.

BTW, since I couldn't get both hands on the place at the same time, I used the shipping box to support the plate so that I could screw in one the bolts on one side with one hand, and then repeat the process for the other bolts. I wish I actually had a lift of some kind.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 9 2006, 04:28 PM) [snapback]346629[/snapback]</div>

Yep. That is along the same lines as what I was reading through various threads. Thanks for the confirmation!

 

It is pretty low to climb under very easy.. if you have any car ramps you can back up on them. If they are angled such that they hit the body, put them at the end of your driveway "if it slants down" and then back up on them.. that worked for me.. makes it "way" more comfortable.

I had some of the same reactions when I installed mine...
Interesting... seems you had to drive faster to even see if there was a problem.. or maybe at least in search for one.

It took about 3 days before I could say for sure.

I do think you have to do things and drive in ways you did before since you are used to that, if you never ever drove aggressive before, it may be a challenge now to tell for sure.

What really made me a believer is when I went on a long all day trip "about 8 hours" through mountain passes etc.. I was amazed and proud of how good my little prius manuvered.
But I lived in the mountains and were used to how turns felt at 65mph.

I guess it would have been fun to actually swap the plate back to compare... but I'm like you.. I "know" I like the BT plate..
And I"m not really worried about 150 bucks.. its a fine piece of machined metal I'll take any day over that other one. Even if I tested and the difference was minimal, I don't want that flimpsy one back on my car!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Nov 9 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]346668[/snapback]</div>

That's a good point that's often overlooked about the placebo effect -- people do really feel better and what's wrong with that.

 

No problem Daniel. FYI, I installed one of our stiffening plates on a local cusomers 2007 Touring last week. The car seemed like it had a bit harsher of a ride than mine (05)




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Nov 9 2006, 11:10 PM) [snapback]346676[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 9 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]346678[/snapback]</div>

Yeh. I guess it was a mistake to drive the front wheels up on the ramp. Next time I try to get under, I'll back on just to see how different it is.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Nov 10 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]346788[/snapback]</div>

Well the plate is in the back..you can get under the front in the same fashion for changing oil or whatnot, but It won't give access to the back where the plate is.

If you have an extra pair of eyes to help you.. its real easy. Otherwise just get out and check things several times before you commit and make sure all is well.

 

You know has anybody asked Toyota engineering, or somebody from Toyota, to get an explanation of what the heck Toyota expects the stock plate to actually do, and if there's room for improvement; much like the TRD and the Sportivo?

Would be nice to get some info from the horse's mouth who designed all this crap instead of arguing if the cat is still alive or not inside the box.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Nov 10 2006, 12:27 AM) [snapback]346793[/snapback]</div>

I can only guess.. maybe the only expect it to do what it does.... and figure most drivers won't notice the difference that that its not a safety issue?

A dog doesn't notice his dry dogfood is bad, until he gets a taste of steak!