BT Stiffening Plate Review

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 8 2006, 09:22 AM) [snapback]345406[/snapback]</div>

That seems a bit involved, I'd settle for something simpler, such as measuring chassis flex. When I'd modified my own cars, if there was enough flex to be readily seen, such as jacking up a corner and a door binds, then it was immedidately apparent when mods helped. In the case of things like strut tower braces, it was easy to jack up a corner of the car and measure the change in distance between the strut towers with and without the brace. I haven't quite figured out how to measure this in the case of the floor brace, but have some ideas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 8 2006, 08:22 AM) [snapback]345406[/snapback]</div>

Then buy the plate and test it all you want... are you trying to get a free plate?

Check out all the other threads.. I have only been very active the last few days.. I am by far the minority in the voice on this.

 

heck... write into Mythbusters....if they do it, the testing will be free.

got a message from UPS. because of bad weather, delivery will be delayed so wont be getting my plate today.

cant imagine why. we average 5.9 inches of rain for November. we have "only" had 9½" of rain in last 36 hours. rivers are flooding but MOST of I-5 is still above water...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 8 2006, 08:58 AM) [snapback]345433[/snapback]</div>

ah, yes the memories!.... we have 300 days of sunshine a year!.... come on down!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 8 2006, 09:41 AM) [snapback]345419[/snapback]</div>

I'd probably buy one at some point, after I do tires and possibly the suspension kit, if someone could explain how it works to help handling, which seems to be an unanswered question.

In the past, when I've modified cars, I could certainly tell how a larger-diameter sway bar might help reduce body lean, or different spring rates, or strut tower braces crispen up the steering, and could make the car work differently. Simply replacing the steel crossmember with an aluminum version seems non-obvious to me how it would help handling, but it's a bad day if I don't learn something new. Does it reduce chassis flex? If so, how and how much?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Nov 8 2006, 10:35 AM) [snapback]345459[/snapback]</div>

According to most BT plate users, it does.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Nov 8 2006, 10:35 AM) [snapback]345459[/snapback]</div>

I don't know how. And nobody knows how much. Brain already stated that these type of tests are too expensive to conduct, so there won't be any data on this. Unless someone else perform the test.

There are multiple threads on this topic, I wonder if we should just keep it to one.

ps, windstrings, i'm trying to be as neutral as I can. Please don't put words into my mouth and/or make personal attacks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Nov 8 2006, 09:35 AM) [snapback]345459[/snapback]</div>

That question was covered in massive detail in the past... it must be buried or lost with a the computer crash.

I'll try the best I can with my limited knowledge "all I really know is it works", but I would imagine a plate even longer may work even better, but would cost alot more for the little improvement.

But if you look at the pics "note post # 6" where the brace goes, you will see the car is shaped like a horseshoe.. in the sense that the body "wraps" around the muffler etc and there is a hole running right down the center of the car.

I'm not sure why this was necessary, but we do have alot of high voltage electronics and they wanted to make the car completly aerodynamic so they shut off access to most of the bottom to prevent air pockets, hence the cover over most of the bottom.
But they had to give access to the muffler etc because of heat issues as well as allowing room for grease monkeys to be able to access the muffler if needed.

That tunnel that runs down the center of the car along the bottom and its open to visual all the way down, it allows flex from the right side of the car to the left.
The thin factory plate prevents any actual bowing in the sense of bending in and out..like bending the open ends of a horseshoe, But does not prevent "flexation" at all. "up and down".

I talked about this in post # 406, then in post # 409 someone asked again..
Here is another place I explained it in post # 88

I guess someone else will have to do better.

If your really worried about this plate, I do recommend you skim through this thread as well as others at the bottom of your page. There is alot of bantering back and forth, but there is alot of good dialouge too.

I can give you links all day long like the one above
look at post # 9 where Ken put the Brace on and then drove it and took it back off to get the same results again.....
or this one.
Some will call it placbo.... they are the ones that need to get thier head examined.

A little hint to the skeptics... when the whole world seems wrong.. beware, its probrably you!

 

my SO does not know that i am about to install the plate. i am going to try to get her to drive my car before and after. will be tough getting her to drive the car because i always drive and she is nervous about driving my car because its too new a car, its not hers, she is not covered under my insurance (too young), etc.

but will see if she volunteers any info. a long shot, but worth a try i suppose

 

I checked each of the links given, and find no answers, merely claims that it has already been answered. This is harder than finding WMDs in Iraq!

And since most of the U.S population believed Saddam was linked to 9-11, mere majority belief carries little weight with me. I prefer to think and analyze, rather than just follow the sheep.

All I'm asking for is an explanation, and I see a whole lot of time being spent claiming that it has been answered already, and no time spent actually providing an answer.

It really doesn't sway me to say "I already answered it, but the answer is gone, so trust me." So I remain unswayed.

It may well work. Other mods may work, too. Since my budget is not unlimited, I choose to do a cost-benefit type of evaluation, and the believability of claims of benefit are at the heart of such an evaluation. It is not at all unreasonable to ask. An answer is not required, but then neither is a purchase. What is defintely not required is the continual harassing by someone who can only be characterized as a shill at this point, who adds personal insults upon anyone who dares actually want to look to see if the Emperor actually has such fine clothes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Nov 8 2006, 11:15 AM) [snapback]345550[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry you didn't get all the rhetoric about flex etc....

I spelled it out as far as I can here......
This is another explaination.... If you don't get this one, its because your really trying not to.
Here is a concurrent thread where I went into more detail. Post # 24

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 8 2006, 11:59 AM) [snapback]345525[/snapback]</div>

Ok, you are saying the aluminum plate keeps the frame rails in the same horizontal plain. I have trouble seeing how that would happen, but that would be an easy thing to measure at least statically. Probably take an hour or two, some duct tape, twine, a piece of chalk, a floor jack, and a tape measure.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Nov 8 2006, 10:52 AM) [snapback]345520[/snapback]</div>

No problem Scotty... I understand your pain.. you hang out with Bob Z I see per post # 54.
And it looks like you've been mulling this over since Sept 5 of 2006.
Its hard not to let it rub off on you....

I apologize if I misrepresented or misinterpreted your thoughts, I just encourage you to keep an open mind... things don't always make sense to work.... and there is alot that goes on beyond our perception with our measly little 5 senses.
Consider the air waves?

We are totally unaware of the bombardment of communication in the air with only our 5 senses.

Keep the faith baby!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 8 2006, 12:37 PM) [snapback]345573[/snapback]</div>

Dude, why does it matter who I hangout with?

We ask questions and raise concerns, you guys attack. I just don't understand this. What happened to logical discussions we had on all other topics?

You are right about faith. This issue is like faith, you believe it or you don't. There's no scientific proof to show.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Nov 8 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]345579[/snapback]</div>

do you have scientific proof you exist?

what........ are you gonna go by what others say alone?... lets see some data!
Drivers license?.. how do you know that exists?

your made up of mere energy.. just a bunch of atoms... where are you in the picture?

If you cut off your hand, are you still there?
How about your head?.. although it would kill you, would that be "you" that falls on the floor and makes that funny "plop" sound?
What if you ripped out your heart.. and threw it on the floor, is that you?
What if you got a heart transplant, who lives inside your body, you or the other person?

Where are you at?
Can you prove that?

Where is the scientific data?

How do you know your not just someones dream?... they will wake up and "poof" your whole life will be gone?

How do you know your not really living in the Matrix? Can you prove it?

Do you have a machine that can measure and prove you love your mother or father?
Can you graph it?

If a tree falls and you didn't see it, did it really happen?

You talk about faith, because you are forced to believe what you cannot see.
How do you know this physical realm is the real world?

Maybe the spirit realm is the real world that last forever and this we all see and feel is just energy that will vanish away? No more than a radio beam that gets turned off?

Open your mind a little bit!....

What you can see is only a tiny bit of the spectrum of radio energy... even our instruments know that... but there is alot our instruments can't see either.

Is the plate beyond that realm in the twilight zone?.. certainly not, but you can't put all your "faith" in a report or readout from some scientific data either.

Whats reality is not always even measured by instruments and if so is usually inaccurate.

What we are talking about here is reality "outside" your reality.

Just because it doesn't make sense to you and in your scope of understanding, does not make it not legitimate.

Moral of the story:
Science is expensive and shallow.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm sorry... this really makes me laugh.

As an electrical engineer, I fully disagree with you. The world as we know it is built base on scientific principles and by engineers.

If I use your logic behind the products that my company makes, I don't know how many lives will be lost. As an engineer, I will have to understand how something works, see and be able to test the specifications. I can't just accept, "I'm telling you it works, so it does."

Anyways, I will give up replying to this topic, since there's no more logic behind all the debates. I'll keep reading thought, like others have said, this is better than reality TV.

 

"I'm sorry you didn't get all the rhetoric about flex etc...."

No, I didn't miss it; I saw lots of rhetoric. Dictonary.com defines rhetoric as "the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast."

I'm looking for fact and reason, not rhetoric.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Nov 8 2006, 12:23 PM) [snapback]345627[/snapback]</div>

Referring to post # 470 where I replied to you and you apparently didn't even read....
Surely your not that slow... I'll post the link again.. here
Just as I did in the above post.. you have to put your mouse over the little underlined "here" word and click in it and it will majically take you there...

Remember..post # 24!

 

Post #24 has no such facts, it is merely more testimonial.

Post #470 is merely your speculation with absolutely no information to justify a belief that that chassis flex at that point is even present on the Prius, much less how the plate removes such flex.

Your continued insults do make up for the lack of facts and reason.

I do, however, agree with your characterization of what has been posted by you as "rhetoric," as defined above. At least we agree on something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Nov 8 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]345650[/snapback]</div>

Per your own post above "# 469"

Just how much longer of an explanation would you like?.. the one I gave was almost a page?
Thats the problem with people like you.... until it meets your preconcieved idea of what your wanting, its never good enough... do you think Brian has the time to go round and round with you guys Like I"ve done?

I've just done it for entertainment, because I'm always facinated with a mind that relys totally on data and facts.

don't you have any gut feelings , instincts, don't you trust "anybody" besides yourself?
Is cold hard numbers the only thing you can snuggle up to?

Have you really been that wounded that you can't believe the countless hundreds of peoples reports and spend a measly 150 bucks? Are you really that tight with a dollar?

Wow... your fun!

some people really do have book knowledge, but no common sense?

Theres a fact for you!....

I'm not name calling if its fact!

 

You know if your really that worried about it.. don't risk the 150 bucks... don't buy it!.. whats the problem?

Brian already said numerous times you are not going to get Empiricle data proving anything.

If you want the data, dig into your wallet and buy it and you provide the Empiricle data that "it doesn't" work!

You don't like the burden of prood being on you do you?
And you don't like being challenged do you?
And you don' t like being talked to like your an idiot do you?

Do you know how many people TOOK a CHANCE and bought the plate without all the proof your wanting and every one of them is delighted?

The only ones that have problems "DON"T" own the plate?

Does that tell your scientific mind anything?


Just buy the plate and test all you want, or go away...its that simple.. no one is going to give you any more than you already have.. so get over it.


If everyone else can take a chance, why are you so weak or so cheap that you can't?

You have to keep pushing the point over and over like a spoiled child thats not getting what he wants. "you weren't were you?"