BT Stiffening Plate Review

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ynono @ Nov 2 2006, 08:07 PM) [snapback]342929[/snapback]</div>

So where can we get the test reports?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 2 2006, 07:49 PM) [snapback]342921[/snapback]</div>

Wow. Now you're being insulting. WWJD? I'll just ignore you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ynono @ Nov 2 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]342929[/snapback]</div>

I went back about 3 pages and I thought you've been quite civil and respectful of others... I didn't see any bashing your direction?
I did comment on why I wouldn't choose the path Tom took "If I were brian", but thats his choice .... Brians plate does a whole lot for as simple as it is, but I think Toms most likely does more and really brings it all together.
Of course a few more coins are involved.

I don't think anybody minds challenging the plate, just not making executive statements of its worthlessness or the foolishness of everybody who obviously fell sucker to a placebo effect.

The former gives others the benifit of a doubt that they could be right on the merit of thier experience and intelligence, the later assumes everybody that likes it is an idiot and decieved by mass hypnosis. The later is very demeaning and flaming and shows a lack of respect.

Most who easily insult others intelligence hate it when thiers is challenged.. its called "Stinky Pride"

I never saw you carrying on that way..... usually respect begats respect and disrespect begats disrespect.

Just because the mud got slinging, I don't think you were responsible for any of that.


Brian has done everyone a service by sharing his little modification and he is thanked by many.....its simple and to the point where its needed the most.

But some have implied that he is a shiester decieving everyone that will fall for it!... thats totally irresponsible, reckless and inconsiderate unless they have first tried the plate themselves.

Toms plate is a whole different story and more than just a little replacement of an OEM part, its a whole modification!

If we are gonna put down the mans plate.. how about lets have a little thread of proof or a test of our own?
Oh yea.. I forgot, that would mean we would have to spend something and buy it! :lol:

Why is the burden of proof on Brian? He has hundreds of word of mouth customers that will vouch for his plate....He doesn't need any proof? If someone doesn't feel thats enough... thats ok, but they shouldn't go one step furthur and judge, and execute without no more than thier opinion...

I am not directing these statements at you.. I am speaking in generalities.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ynono @ Nov 2 2006, 05:07 PM) [snapback]342929[/snapback]</div>

Two questions.

Do you have an engineering degree?

Do you thing that Ford's, GM's, DaimlerChrysler's and Toyota's, etc., "design testers" are qualified to pass judgment on aircraft parts engineering?

 

The design of the BT Tech stiffening plate is such that it does not require anyone to drill and tap holes in the body and involve extensive modifications that are difficult/impossible to easily remove. Installing our stiffening plate can be done by the average person in less than 15 minutes time and is easily removable if one wanted to go back to the stock plate for whatever reason.

When I design a part it has to meet certain criteria:

1: It has to be EASILY installed and does NOT require any modifications to get to work

2: The part has to be fully CNC machined for consistent quality and an extremely high level of fit and finish

3: The part has to actually work and do the job it was intended to do.

4: The part has to be affordable.


I get calls everyday from people asking if I could have improved and made parts for other things on the car to even further improve the handling. My answer is always the same as of course there is but the amount of difficulty involved in installing them and the expense is usually not worth it not to mention the results usually include a much harsher ride.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 2 2006, 11:20 PM) [snapback]342965[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 2 2006, 08:10 PM) [snapback]343004[/snapback]</div>

Two answers,

answer to question number one =yes.


Answer to question number two, excuse the punctuation I forgot the , between design and testing.
Now as far as design testers or testers . No, but as to engineering / crunching numbers, stress points. No matter if in the air or on the ground. Fasteners will still need to meet a minimal amount of surface contact area for proper support of the assembly or part in question and that contact area has to be large enough for the highest degree of forces foreseeably to ever be seen by that part or assembly.


Thank you windstrings for helping me put things back into perspective I guess sometimes I get too excited.

Brian (BT Tech) I never meant to imply that your plate did not work. My excitement was more from an engineering standpoint and a pat on the back that after seeing the picture that my assumption about the bolts biting into the aluminum plate were correct. But not that the plate did not work.

And for my statement about Tom's products being tested. Do your own search for Tom's race and then you can read it for yourself. There history and ties to Toyota and you can also do like I did and call them and talk to them directly. By the way Tom's is actually an acronym of the two founders of the company.

For me I went the Tom's Root of stiffening up the floor and rear suspension it also cost me $814.00 to do it that way. Being an engineer myself the design of Tom's pieces/engineering I found to be very sound and interesting that's why I purchased them. I also spent a long time in doing a lot of reverse engineering to see if I agreed with how his products work with the design of the car. The way he went about doing that was pretty neat (Do we use that word anymore?) because it's basically a bolt in job no cutting required or modification it is a lot harder to install than the other plate, BT Tech.

Now the question is will I ever use the potential of these parts installed - no. Like everyone else that modifies
their car (in this case the Prius) I like to be different, one-of-a-kind. And the handling makes the car a lot safer and a pleasure drive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 1 2006, 06:49 PM) [snapback]341940[/snapback]</div>

You forgot The Netherlands!
Another satisfied user here.

 

OOPS!!! Sorry about that.. Yes, and of course the Netherlands!


Thank you for reminding me!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sho-Bud @ Nov 3 2006, 07:55 AM) [snapback]343092[/snapback]</div>

 

Brian do you plan on doing any kind of testing so that as a potential buyer I can decide to buy or not?

Thanks
Ray

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 3 2006, 10:16 AM) [snapback]343223[/snapback]</div>

Brian already stated he put it on his own personal car and thats how this plate came into being and he expressed how it definately made a difference.
Then he made it for many of his friends who begged him too and they too confirmed.

I have numerous times expressed my delight with how it made a difference. I don't know Brian, never even talked to him on the phone, nor do I see them nor am financially associated to his product in any fashion or concievable way.

Hundreds of posts from other buyers have been demonstrated over many months on longevity.

We all "tested" his plate for free... I course we had to take a chance and buy it first.

I someone doesn't believe all of that overwhelming evidence.... why would any test that Brian did be believed any different? He is definately not an "unbiased objective" party?

Just who will it take to do this test before its believable and how much will it cost and who will pay for it?

Brian can speak for himself, but I see few people who actually buy thier products because of what some "test" said somewhere. In this age of commercialism and deception, anyone who does so, I question thier judgement and fear they may be very gullible and yet have alot to learn.

What happened to common sense and going with your instincts? People let what they hear and see throw them off too much to be in tune with that!
Thats why politics are so screwed up and bad politics have so much leverage. Its true, there is a fool born every minute!

How can you believe what you hear and see? You have to read between the lines and go with your gut.

Sometimes you'll miss it, but more times than not, you'll fare better than listening to test results.

I can do a scan right now on google to look for test results on any car, any antivirus program or other software, a TV, any electronics, the best airlines to use, on and on and on and compare them with others of the same and they will all have tests proving why thiers is number one and the best...... bah! Are you going to really go with that?... who does?

Those test are for masses and the young or foolish who haven't been educated about what fuels propoganda and image yet.... All those companies have to try and convince us any way they can how thiers should be bought above the others at a given price.

I get so sick of car and truck commercials.... continuous deception and lies.

"Cingular is has fewest dropped calls of any cell company" if you read between the lines........ that may be a fact, but if you have 1/10th clientel of verizon or some of the others and your coverage is so limited that you only cover and saturate the cities, then you can say that.
They fail to mention, they have sparse coverage and you can't get them at all much of the time... but hey, if you get them at all, you won't get dropped!

Then there are the claims that they know you would have to spend too much money to "disprove" so they get away with it.

Then there are politics who blatantly lie about thier opponent because they know we are emotional creatures and by the time we figure out the truth our heart is already turned against them and we dont' trust them. The damage is already done and finalized.. the truth at that point is irrelevant.

I challenge anybody out there to do a test.. Brian or anybody else and lets see how fast it gets cut to ribbons and scutenized and discounted as nothing... so whats the point.

Some people you will never please.. so why try?

At least Brian doesn't make outlandish claims. He says his part is simple and easy to install by anyone and does a whole lot of improvement for what it is, but if you want to actually modify your car and turn it into a sports car and spend more money you can do that too.

 

Hi Windstings, I appreciate your comments and I like to read your comments but I was hoping to get an answer from Brian himself. Thanks

Also I can't speak for how other people make their decisions, mainly because I am definitely the outcast in my family, but there are over 4 million subscibers to consumer reports. This is a lot of people who rely on their judgment and use them as a guide for buying products. They own me, hook line and sinker. One month they made a huge mistake on the cost of owning a prius, but made a correction the following month when a letter to the editor showed them their error. So even they screw up.

This might also be a way for Brian to get a free test. Sometimes they test products submitted to them and give their results.

Thanks
Ray

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 3 2006, 11:48 AM) [snapback]343304[/snapback]</div>

That could be.... but no offense taken and I understand you hope Brian gives us his take on it, but you brought up the other point I forgot to make.... consumer reports and reviews.... I get much more information from those than I do independent tests. They are the impressions from honest people who have no motivation to lie.
But thats what I was trying to say.. if people won't believe impressions from people who have no reason to lie, then what good are tests from people who may have no heart in what the test is about or may be paid off?
I have found that home inpections and all kinds of test tend to slant a slight favor "without being obvious" towards the one who is paying them!!!

But I'll butt out of this conversation for awhile and give everybody a break.... thanks for you comments.

 

Hello Ray and thank you for your comments.

I have mentioned many times before the amount of testing that went into producing this part. I have done blind tests with individuals that are high performance/race car drivers and are able to detect minor changes to a vehicle. In fact these guys can detect when one tire is under/over inflated by 1psi!! During the duration of these tests there was no doubt that our stiffening plate improved the overall ride and handling of the car. What was mentioned most often by the drivers was that the car felt more firmly planted in the rear and that the side oscillations that they were feeling during high speed were gone with our stiffening plate installed.

To produce absolute numerical data that you are asking for is beyond what a small company can do. The amount of financial resources necessary and the equipment is something only an OEM manufacturer would have access and resources available to do.

Simpler tests such as setting up a slalom course could be done but the results would not be repeatable due to too many variables such as tire grip, driver’s abilities, driver inconsistancies.etc..etc..

Another poster pointed out a very good question which I agree with. Why is it that no one asks for these types of results from ANY OTHER PRODUCT? We already have a great number of people that are happy with our stiffening plate. If the plate did not perform don't you think that there would be a large number of people saying so?

If you are looking for empirical evidence and data supporting mine an everyone else's claims that our stiffening plate works you are not going to find it. If you are that skeptical and are so hesitant to try something for the little amount of money we are talking about I would suggest that you don't and simply be happy with the way the car is.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 3 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]343304[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 3 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]343353[/snapback]</div>

Hi Brian, thanks for the response. After seeing two people killed in front of me by an suv that couldn't get out of the way of another car, it's become apparent to me how important handling is. If your plate works, it's worth the money to me. I just don't have any sense of whether it works or not. Why wouldn't a slalom course work. It seems that you could do 10 runs with, 10 runs without, 10 runs with, 10 runs without. This seems to me, would eliminate issues about tire wear, road temperature, brake fade, improvement in practice. I don't know much about these issues but it seems that if there was significant differences it would prove the benefit of your plate and justify the cost.

Brian I have rebuilt 15 of these priuses and then I drive them about 1000 miles before I sell them. I have noticed that these cars tend to handle good until you get over 75(which I do frequently). I have never had to make an emergency manuever but your plate could save my life one day if it works, I just wished I knew.

 

gee...after buying, rebuilding and selling 15 Priuses, i find it hard to believe that you wouldnt spend a measly $165 on nothing more than a lark.

 

Don't have one of Brian's plates yet but it's on my list - right now my Christmas list. :lol: Based on everything I've read in this post, it just a matter of time until it's installed.
Do I need to jack the rear end up or is it just possible to back up onto my rams (low angle Rhino 8000)?

 

A good handling car to me is more important than one with a lot of power. Although it is nice to have both though!!

Setting up slalom event sounds like a good idea but what would it really prove? That the car with our plate goes faster around the cones than the car without? While this would be the case the benefits of having our stiffening plate installed improves the overall feel and stability of the car. These are things that can not be measured in a slalom course but has to be experienced. At the end of the day after all of this testing including all of the effort and expense of doing it there would STILL be those that would not believe the results so why even bother?

99 percent of the people out there that have our stiffening plate that drive the car every day can and many have already voiced their opinions on how the plate helped the handling and overall stability of their Prius. I really don't want to sound condescending but if that is not enough "proof" for someone that is on the fence about purchasing one I would rather they didn't.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Nov 3 2006, 04:12 PM) [snapback]343366[/snapback]</div>

Your Rhino-Ramps would work perfectly. I have done many installs using the ramps and you can install it in less than 15 minutes and that is with you taking your time!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius biker @ Nov 3 2006, 08:12 PM) [snapback]343533[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ Mar 13 2006, 12:29 PM) [snapback]224225[/snapback]</div>

I purchased an inexpensive torque wrench and the install took about 9 minutes. The hardest thing was to make sure the logo that is engraved on the plate is in the correct position. (of course reading the instructions makes that extremely easy as well).. Not trying to be cute here, very simple install. ANYONE can do it.

 

install is easy. the toughest part is getting access to the underbelly of the car. but the stock plate is in plain sight, unobstructed, attached by 4 bolts (screws??). remove it, attach the BT plate tighten the 4 bolts and that is it.

it took less than 10 mins to install mine and half of that time was spent jacking up the car, blocking it, then taking it back down again. if i had access to a hydraulic lift or a mechanics pit, one could easily do the install in about 3 minutes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Nov 3 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]343353[/snapback]</div>

Granted there may be enough improvement that a highly trained driver can feel. But what about the normal average prius driver? People can discount the placebo effect all they want but I personally have experienced it and find it amazing what the human mind can let you think you feel. While I keep hearing you say we need to try it for ourselves, I find the high price tag a bit much just to try it out.

Have you done any tests with average driver's and without them knowing the plate was on the car? Also without them knowing any type of handling product was added to the vehicle, because remember just mentioning there is something added to the vehicle which can cause a handling change will placebo the result, as they would then look for something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Nov 4 2006, 04:55 AM) [snapback]343698[/snapback]</div>

Do a search for blind tests and see what you can pull up... several have done just that.

The best way to tell is not to drive like grandma and then install it, but challenge your car buy a curvy or uneven terrain of some sort.... and take it a little faster than your comfort zone..
then install the plate and take the same course.

Its hard to tell a difference at all driving in a straight line at 55mph.... of course someone could steal half of your steering suspension during the night and you wouldn't notice it at those speeds and conditions.

Most products you see that have all the graphs and proof of their warrant, rarely hold water as all tests can be manipulated due to variances between so many issues.

There are "volumes" of reading about the BT Plate... I see your new but your questions are not.