BT Stiffening Plate Review

This article came out of the Houston Chronicle on 8/16/06.

This is the placebo action in work.

Something to consider when buying a bottle of wine

Chronicle
The all-important swirl.
Ignore any and all numerical ratings.

Jonah Lehrer has a nice rant about the use of a numerical system to rank wines, on a scale of 100, that seems to be more popular than ever.

Obviously, a winemaker can sell a highly rated wine -- this Chardonnay is a 92! -- but the consumer should bear in mind that the ranking is specious, at best. Lehrer describes one experiment done by University of Bordeaux wine researcher Frederic Brochet with wine tasters:

He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle was a fancy grand-cru. The other bottle was an ordinary vin du table. Despite the fact that they were actually being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the differently labeled bottles nearly opposite ratings.

The grand cru was "agreeable, woody, complex, balanced and rounded," while the vin du table was "weak, short, light, flat and faulty". Forty experts said the wine with the fancy label was worth drinking, while only 12 said the cheap wine was.

 

saw that wine test. give the testers a case of the wine to take home, wait a month then get the reviews... think you will see a much different story. that is was peer reviews are all about.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Aug 16 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]303991[/snapback]</div>

I remember this. There was another component: they took white wine and added an odorless, tasteless red dye. Then they had the experts taste both white and red versions of the same wine. They changed their taste descriptions dramatically, as would apply to white or red accordingly.

 

Apparently these were the test. I found a reference that said this article originally came out in the New Yorker, if anyone has a subscription, maybe we can get the original story.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottR @ Aug 16 2006, 11:55 AM) [snapback]304065[/snapback]</div>

The wines were actually the same white wine, one of which had been tinted red with food coloring. But that didn't stop the experts from describing the "red" wine in language typically used to describe red wines. One expert praised its "jamminess," while another enjoyed its "crushed red fruit." Not a single one noticed it was actually a white wine.

The second test Brochet conducted was even more damning. He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle was a fancy grand-cru. The other bottle was an ordinary vin du table. Despite the fact that they were actually being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the differently labeled bottles nearly opposite ratings. The grand cru was "agreeable, woody, complex, balanced and rounded," while the vin du table was "weak, short, light, flat and faulty". Forty experts said the wine with the fancy label was worth drinking, while only 12 said the cheap wine was.

What these wine experiments illuminate is the omnipresence of subjectivity. When we take a sip of wine, we don't taste the wine first, and the cheapness or redness second. We taste everything all at once, in a single gulp of thiswineisred, or thiswineisexpensive. As a result, the wine "experts" sincerely believed that the white wine was red, and that the cheap wine was expensive. And while they were pitifully mistaken, their mistakes weren't entirely their fault. Our brain has been designed to believe itself, wired so that our prejudices feel like facts, our opinions indistinguishable from the actual sensation. If we think a wine is cheap, it will taste cheap. And if we think we are tasting a grand cru, then we will taste a grand cru. Our senses are vague in their instructions, and we parse their suggestions based upon whatever other knowledge we can summon to the surface. As Brochet himself notes, our expectations of what the wine will taste like "can be much more powerful in determining how you taste a wine than the actual physical qualities of the wine itself."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Aug 16 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]304041[/snapback]</div>

No give me the case of wine to take home and... wait, what were we talking about? Hey they have those big pretzels, rhooglyjjgr 5 dollars, get out of here...

To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems!

 

sorry, posed in wrong thread.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rangerdavid @ Aug 20 2006, 07:17 PM) [snapback]306487[/snapback]</div>

Yea, I was wondering about that, but it seems it was a popular subject, so who was I go break up a good wine party?

 

What does it do for mileage, and i saw a pic of it here
http://priuschat.com/shop/popup_image.php/pID/21
but I have no idea what it is, can someone circle the item, and how easy is it to install, like what parts are needed ?

 

Hello Massimo.. Our product is not designed to increase or decrease fuel effeciency of the Prius. It was designed to increase the stiffness of the body and to prevent flexing which in turn makes the car handle and ride better.

The installation is very easy and can be done in well under 15 minutes. Please do a search here and you will find a wealth of information on this subject.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask!!




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(massimo @ Aug 21 2006, 09:10 AM) [snapback]306639[/snapback]</div>

 

After reading as many posts as I could find about the BT plate, I am convinced that this is my next mod. Thanks for all the info!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Aug 21 2006, 10:55 PM) [snapback]307355[/snapback]</div>

I installed the stiffener on my 04 Prius and noticed a slight improvement in stability in cross winds. When I traded in the 04 for an 06, I replaced it with the OEM plate so I could use the BT plate if I needed it. All 4 machine screws seemed to be equally torqued, but I didn't measure loosening torque. Then I didn't look at the plate again until my first 06 oil change yesterday, when I was about to install it. I'm worried about wear in the counterbores of the elongated slots - much wear appears to have resulted from working when entering driveways at an angle or turning through dips at intersections. I am certain that my torque wrench is accurate and that I installed the plate initially using the torque instructed (though I have lost the instructions over the last couple of years, and do not remember the exact value). I installed it on a level concrete floor over an old-fashioned mechanic's pit. The surfaces under the contact corners were perfectly clean.

The flat washers provided appear too thin, and may have contributed to poor load-bearing contact. Note the distortion on the attached photo. I would certainly recommend that torques be rechecked by users of this product, at least after a hundred miles, or so, after initial installation. I did not do this, and drove about 20,000 miles after installing it.

I need advice on how to salvage the plate. A friend owns a Bridgeport Mill, but I'm concerned about the loss of surface temper, and reduction of strength remaining after milling about .020" . The circular bores show no fretting at all, so perhaps a thicker, better fitting washer would stand up better in the elongated bores? Engineers, please advise.

[attachmentid=5513]

 

Your BT Tech stiffening plate is perfectly re-usable as is. Please contact me either by PM or call the number listed below and we can send you a fresh set of new stainless steel washers and bolts for your 06 Prius at no charge.

 

I think this image does raise a larger issue, however...and I'm hopeful that it doesn't just fade away.

That is, it appears to me that the stiffness of the BT brace so far exceeds that of the floorpan and the stock brace that it's working against the floorpan attachment points themselves.

I suspect that the stock brace flexes enough so it doesn't overtax the mounting points...but the stiffness of the BT product appears to be overwhelming.

Might this be more of a concern than is being indicated? I mean, the bolt holes are placed rather close together; that would appear to be the weakest point in the brace/floorpan assembly (especially when the bolts themselves are only tightened to 17ft/lbs).

Conclusion: the brace may simply be too stiff. I think this wear issue will definitely be a thing to keep an eye on, especially if the car is driven hard.

 

if you saw the stock brace, i think you would have a lot less concern. the stock brace i can almost flex it with my bare hands and im not that strong. had it on my 04 and will soon have it on my 06.

imo, well worth the money. to be honest with ya for a safety, performance issue, its cheaper than nearly any other solution. at $165 cant beat that. air shocks can run $300, tires $400 or more...

for its purpose, its a pretty cheap option

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Oct 31 2006, 09:03 PM) [snapback]341693[/snapback]</div>

Well if there is any point of weakness, its because the original plate only has 4 holes. It just goes to show you have much actual movement "tries" to happen. The original plate lets it happen with its flex and its no big deal with the holes, but the BT plate keeps the frame fixed and rigid and the cost of tremendous forces on only 4 bolts.

Maybe hardened steel inserts so the bolts slide through the inserts that are fastened into the aluminum?
If the fit was tooo tight, the bolts may snap.. I don't know, but at any rate the plate does its job.....
I may check mine now that I have 15K miles and see if it needs a retorque or not.

 

I had my car on the lift today and re-checked the torque value of the 4 stainless steel bolts. After 32K miles of HARD driving the torque spec on the bolts were at 20 lbs.

What you are seeing in the picture is the washer "biting" into the aluminum plate. IMO this is nothing to be concerned about as there is adequate clamping pressure being exerted by the 4 bolts and washers to the chassis.

Our stiffening plate is made out of billett 6061-T6 and is an excellent alloy which offers great strength and light weight. Critical aircraft components are made out of the exact same material and undergoes a lot more stress than what the Prius can dish out without failure!!




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Nov 1 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]341696[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Oct 31 2006, 07:18 PM) [snapback]341700[/snapback]</div>

Hi all,

I have been lurking in the background for months but I finally have to say something.
The picture of the BT plate with the elongated and indented mounting holes did not
surprise me because the design of the plate does not allow for any twist or very little.
And the surface area of the bolts used are not large enough for the forces seen at the
mounting point. I was just waiting for someone with the plate to post a picture of this
exact problem. This could ultimately crack the frame in the mounting area if the plate
was not taken off .

This reminds me of the thread about the Tom's floor stiffening bracket. How it was
a poor design and made of scrap from a metal shop, I almost died laughing with this.
The Tom's stiffening bracket actually allows for twisting but not collapsing of the U
which is required for that part of the chassis for good handling. Speaking of Tom's
they were the first official Toyota tuner and subsequently have been making race cars
for team Toyota ever cents. And a lot of their parts are used as factory options
on Toyota cars. To show this the only official place in the United States to purchase
their products is Carson Toyota in California. The Rear Suspension Member
Strengthening Brace which replaces the same stock brace of the Prius as the BT one does.
Goes further by dissipating the forces to the outside of the frame and between the two
mounting points of the rear suspension on the chassis. And the steel is not as hard on
the chassis as the aircraft aluminum used in the BT plate.

I know I'll get blasted for this post from all of the believers in this plate (BT).
Yes 6061-T6 is a very strong aluminum alloy but is best used in sheer not in
torsion / twisting. By using a bolt with a bigger head, thereby increasing the
surface area of contact this would decrease the problem seen in the picture but
would not fix the problem altogether. It would require further testing.

 

My personal belief is the Prius does not need nor will the average driver notice a difference with this plate. And it certainly isn't a cost effective device. I'm sorry and will probably get flammed but, the Prius is not a race car and again the average Prius driver will never notice the difference had they not known it was installed. Placebo...placebo....placebo effect is all you are feeling.

 

Hello Bob and let me be one of the fist to welcome you aboard PC!!

Let me clarify a few things that you mention in your post. The reason that we used elongated holes for one side of our stiffening plate was to allow the proper spacing for our bolts to attach to the chassis. Every car that is manufactured has minor production variances and the elongated holes are vital to make sure all of the plates fit properly without the customer having to modify his or her car.

Another design consideration was that the plate had to be significantly stiffer than the factory piece of tin to adequately do the job it was inttended to do. The area in which our stiffening plate is attached is one of the most solid points along the steel chassis. If something was going to crack or break it would be our plate and NOT the chassis. The density of steel used in this part of the frame is significantly stronger than 6061-T6 so if there were forces present that would cause a failure, I can assure you that the plate would break long before the chassis.

The picture that you are referring to is nothing more than an image of the washers being torqued down against the plate. There is NOTHING that is wrong with it and can be easily and safely used again on the customers 06 Prius. You mention that there is a "problem" but in all of the plates that I have installed and transferred there is no issue at all.

I have seen the Tom's products and I don't doubt their effectiveness as others have installed them and posted positive reviews, I feel that their fit and finish is quite poor. There was even an instance where one of the Tom's braces were contacting the exhaust system causing it to bang when the car went over bumps.

I can assure you that you will not get "blasted" and I welcome your comments.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ynono @ Nov 1 2006, 02:09 AM) [snapback]341745[/snapback]</div>

 

I like mine.