BT Stiffening Plate Review

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Mar 26 2006, 08:47 PM) [snapback]230485[/snapback]</div>

hi dennis ,,
I will take a look under the car tomorrow and take a pic aswell (2006 european version)
I know the 2006version (atleast in europe) has different dampers and other upgrades compared to the 2005version.
i was planning to order a new plate aswell,, but im so satisfied with the handling of the car so im still unsure . my 17" wheel might do some effect aswell..

cheers
Andreas

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Aug 4 2006, 10:38 AM) [snapback]297758[/snapback]</div>

Brian, I really appreciate and respect your contributions and input to the Prius community since I got on this board last year. I remember most of everything you said when you started this project, as well as the later spoiler project, your delight at getting the Prius, the dyno tests, and then the need to fix up the stability of the handling.

Now, I'm sorry but I do have to nit-pick the above. If it is actually that difficult and expensive to even measure the changes the plate has (even such as "a person pushs a Prius sideways by X amount and it should lean less by X amount", or better lap times, or video of stock plate wiggling/bending during maneuvers maybe with backup camera wired to watch it underneath for example), then the positive effect is minimal enough that only purist should really care.

Otherwise if it works for you, the ones that are using it, great!

But, let's keep the disclaimer that it's YMMV because the improvement isn't really measurable.

Thanks for your time and looking forward to any other improvements you come up with. Weren't we talking about bigger stabilizer bars and BT "suspension upgrade" package suite not too far back?

 

I have a European Prius. Nothing different from the US model as far as stiffness is concerned. Same brace which can be flexed by hand. The BT plate highly improved steering precission.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 1 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]295675[/snapback]</div>

Thanks, but this doesn't answer the two specfic questions I asked. I've scrolled through this and other threads, but couldn't find the answers. Perhaps Brian or someone else knows them. My first question was, is the BT plate an opportunistic fix, choosen because it's easy to do, or was it the result of an extensive engineering analysis that identified it as an ideal fix? Related to this, if it is opportunistic, are there far better, though more difficult fixes available?

My second question related to the bolts holding in the BT plate. The bolt holes were designed to secure a flimsy piece of metal, as others have called it. Doesn't a larger, far stronger piece of metal require stronger, larger bolts to be secure and effective?

 

Can't say if it was an opportunistic fix, but for something beyond the plate, there is Tom's Rear Suspension brace which extends further back. It replaces the stock plate and it connects to a few additional points over the BT Tech plate, but it is $450 vs $160. I have yet to get mine, but there are a few people here that have that installed. Not sure if they had the BT plate to begin with, though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Aug 6 2006, 09:32 AM) [snapback]298623[/snapback]</div>

I have had a beef with the Bolts supplied.. they are stainless and seem to work fine, but "don't" over torque them!.. they "will" break!...then its a real pain to get the remainder back out!

I suppose "any" bolt will break if you overtorque it enough.

I only went about 10 lbs too much... but it did the trick!

It would be very cheap to get hardened bolts from your local auto supply, or better yet.. I found them at the hardware store locally by my house... they are very common and easy to find.

Again..if you don't overtorque, the supplied ones seem to work fine and I've heard of no complaints at least from browsing the forums, but if in doubt... another 10 bucks ought to get you 4 more hardened ones if it makes you feel better.

I thought being stainless alone was trick, because I remembered years ago someone telling me stainless was 10 times harder than regular steel, but when it comes to bolts.. they can still be quite soft even though they are stainless!

But I would stick with stainless incase you ever want to remove them later, they won't be rusted in.
they do come with some grease to apply also.

I have been driving mine about 10K miles now with no problems... I suppose I should see if the torque has changed and retighten them, but I don't think thats necessary unless someone knows different.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 6 2006, 04:29 PM) [snapback]298709[/snapback]</div>

Thanks Presto and Windstrings! Harder bolts sound like a good idea, though they are still going into a hole (and probably metal) that was designed for a weaker application.

Nevertheless, with so many people saying the plate enhances performance, it's worth a shot.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Aug 6 2006, 01:47 PM) [snapback]298717[/snapback]</div>

We will look forward to hear your feedback.

While you are awaiting your order, make sure you find some nice roads that will test your suspension and handling abilities if you don't already have some.

I can't tell much difference driving freeway at normal speeds in a straight line... its the torqueing, turning, twisting etc that will tell the story.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 6 2006, 01:29 PM) [snapback]298709[/snapback]</div>

Would it be a good idea to use some Loctite when installing them?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Aug 7 2006, 08:14 AM) [snapback]299015[/snapback]</div>

I don't know if thats the brand they use with the factory ones they send, but yes, I used the loctite "anti-seize compound... its greyish looking... designed to hold like normal, but if you ever want to untighten them, its easy.

 

The stainless bolts that we supply with each BT Tech stiffening plate are already pre-coated with an anti-seize coating. You simply pull off the tape on each bolt and you are ready to install your plate.

We tried to make everything as simple as possible for the end user so you don't have to go purchase anything additional to install your stiffening plate.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 7 2006, 01:11 PM) [snapback]299109[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Aug 4 2006, 08:38 AM) [snapback]297758[/snapback]</div>

Brian

I am pleased with the respectful way you present yourself. The questions which have been raised are not those of malcontents or irresponsible people. These are reasonable questions and the attacks on those who raise them are not in the spirit of a helpful community.

A simple driving comparison of a no plate, a factory plate and a BT plate equipped Prius, all otherwise as similar as possible, should be easy to arrange and not very costly. The drivers (not the owners), who would not know which cars were which, would then guess which car was which. If they could correctly identify the cars after comparison drives, it would be clear that there is a difference. Some measure of the magnitude of difference is also likely.

Brian, I think you should set up such a comparison. First, you know the plate best and how best to show it off. Second, you stand to gain from a well done comparison. Third, you are in the best position to decide if making such a comparison is worth while. If you decide that it is not worth while, then that is a statement that the BT plate is a mod for those who want to do "everything" to their Prius and not to make specific performance improvements. There is nothing wrong with that. Testimonials are just fine for these things.

 

I have never "attacked" anyone that questioned the validity of the improvements our stiffening plate makes to the Prius. I welcome ALL views from everyone as long as it stays on a non personal non insulting level. I know that a lot of our loyal customers feel very strongly about the improvements that our plate has made to their cars and chose to express their feelings here.

The fact remains that since we came out with our stiffening plate over a year ago we have sold literally hundreds to Prius owners all over the world. The internet is a VERY big place and bad feedback travels A LOT faster than good feedback!! If our stiffening plate did not do as I designed it to do don't you think that this would be apparent by now? Everything that you suggested below has already been done during the design/prototype/end product stages and the overwhelming consensus was that with our plate installed the car had much better road manners and was more stable than with the OEM plate installed. These tests were done by myself as well as several excellent SCCA drivers that can detect tire pressure differentials of 1 PSI!!

For the most part the Prius community is comprised of very intellectual and well spoken individuals. That being said, to fund a study to show those that do not believe what I or hundreds of the other people that have posted here have said just so that they can feel comfortable about their buying decision is not financially feasible. As I have stated before I am NOT getting rich selling this part. I wanted to be able to use some of my design skills that I have used on high performance platforms and use it on the Prius for the betterment of everyone.






<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Aug 8 2006, 12:34 AM) [snapback]299480[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(andreaswin @ Aug 5 2006, 07:48 PM) [snapback]298428[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for checking and please do report back. My 17" rims 205 mm tires also improved. I am going to install the BT plates this weekend.

I just came back from my vacation trip to Niagara Falls. While driving there, I drove it to the top speed (107 mph). I reached 107 mph while going on incline and was getting 19 MPG. When I reached the top, it stayed at 107 mph and was getting 22 MPG. Then, I had to slow down for the traffic ahead. I was probably getting better MPG than those SUVs going 50 mph. :-D I love Hybrid Synergy Drive.

The car was very stable at that speed without BT plates. I will see if I notice any improvement with the BT plates.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sho-Bud @ Aug 6 2006, 11:52 AM) [snapback]298611[/snapback]</div>

You have 2003 Prius isn't it? BT Plate is for 2004+ MY.

Dennis

 

Hi Brian, I take my hat off to you for being an innovator and doing more than talking and getting off your butt and actually experimenting. It also seems that the plate could make sense because of the shape of the underside of the car.

So far I have rebuilt 14 of the 04,05,06 priuses and have noticed that the only ones that did not handle so good were some of the early 04 priuses. I think that once the tires are aired up properly these cars handle good and consistently. I usually drive each of these cars a couple of thousand miles before we sell them.

I would like to see actual data that indicates this improvement really works. Like a timed slalom course. It doesn't have tp be a double blind test, just as long as the driver doesn't know. Although you have a vested interest in the outcome I would still beleive your reports. The absence of any information like this, cast doubt on what any reasonable person think.

Ray

 

Brian

I was not careful to avoid the impression that I was including you in the "attackers". That was not my intent and I am sorry that you were able to get that meaning.

I accept your decision to rely on testimonials only. A strong testimonial is better than a weak objective comparison. A strong objective comparison would likely pay for itself. You are in the best position to make this judgement and you have made it.

Best wishes to you and all who rely upon you.





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Aug 7 2006, 08:22 PM) [snapback]299499[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(firepro @ Aug 8 2006, 09:27 AM) [snapback]299573[/snapback]</div>

Even if you went through effort of doing this, it wouldn't prove anything because there is already too much variation in human performance.

Some people are so dead set on having to have the hard data. Just because something can be measured or calculated, doesn't mean a person can feel the difference. In this case, isn't the most important thing if you can or cannot feel the difference with the BT plate installed? It's already proven that some can and some cannot.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dancekat59 @ Aug 8 2006, 04:28 PM) [snapback]299866[/snapback]</div>

To me it would be like the EPA mileage for the Prius. Some will get that figure, some will surpass it and others won't.

 

No worries Allannde... I did not mean to say that YOU were implying that I was one of the "attackers" but after I re-read what I wrote it looked that way...

To EVERYONE that recently placed their orders for our stiffening plate we had a HUGE shipment go out today so depending on where you live you should be receiving your BT Tech stiffening plate very shortly!!




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Aug 8 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]299678[/snapback]</div>

 

I installed my BT plate about a week ago. Bought the car 7/14/06, and experienced some of the tail "waggle" described in the BT-related threads. It wasn't terrible, I've driven worse, and thought it was just a trade-off for the many positives about the car. Read some of the responses about the plate, so I took the plunge and ordered one. It was supposed to be a hefty piece of machined metal (it was), come with all mounting hardware and instructions (it did), and be fairly easy to install (it was) - 15-20 minutes w/o having to jack up the car. So far, the Prius-related purchases I've made have all been problem and complaint free.
I definitely feel the difference on a daily basis. I'm a real estate agent in northen NJ, lots of driving on all kinds of roads (and some driveways that mountain goats would be intimidated by). Call it seat-of-the-pants subjectivism, but it works for me, I would recommend it highly, and it's too inexpensive not to give it a shot, IMHO.
A very nice product. Kudos.