Bought Michelin Defender Tires and have remorse. Energy Savers are what I think I should have got.

Yes 55 thousand Kilometers or about 30 thousand miles. The Prius had 20,000 kilometers on it when I purchased it. There may have been about 10,000 miles left when I swapped them so would have probable made 40 K miles or 40 thousand miles . Not sure why folks below the 49th use the term k's as to me it means kilometer's.

 

As per the info below , K is for kilo- (1,000). It's kinda funny that he referenced 30K in his example. I was taught this reference in engineering school many moons ago!

Was also taught that km was for kilometers.

Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math
K as an Abbreviation for Thousands

Date: 05/29/2002 at 21:48:38
From: Caryll
Subject: Representation of thousands and millions

In class last night my professor wrote $30M and intended it to
mean thirty thousand dollars. I was taught that 30K meant thirty
thousand. I looked at several of the sites referencing Roman
numerals, but can't find anything about 'K'. Can you assist?


Date: 05/29/2002 at 22:47:10
From: Doctor Peterson
Subject: Re: Representation of thousands and millions

Caryll.

When we write "30 K" for 30,000, we are not using Roman numerals
but pseudo-metric, where K stands for "kilo-".

For the same reason, "30 M" means 30,000,000, using M for "mega-"
(or just "million").

It would be wrong to use Roman numerals this way; M here can't
stand for thousand. But I suspect it's a common mistake.

See this site, listed in our FAQ, that tells all there is to know
about units:

How Many?
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/

K
an informal abbreviation for one thousand used in
expressions where the unit is understood, such as "10K
run" (10 kilometers) or "700K disk" (700 kilobytes or
kibibytes). Note that "K" is also the symbol for the
kelvin (see below). Also note that the symbol for the
metric prefix kilo- (1000) is actually k-, not K-.

M [1]
informal abbreviation for million in expressions where
the base unit is understood, as in "500M hard drive"
(500 megabytes or mebibytes). In chemistry, M is the
symbol for "molar" (see below).

M [2]
the Roman numeral 1000, sometimes used in symbols to
indicate a thousand, as in Mcf, a traditional symbol
for 1000 cubic feet. Given the widespread use of M to
mean one million, this older use of M to mean 1000 is
very confusing and should be scrapped.

 

OK makes sense now H

 

I had Goodyear Integrity that came factory installed. They lasted for 45,000.
Then I installed Micheline Defender rated warranty for 80,000 miles(costco). They lasted about 75,000 miles.
Have been very happy with Micheline so far, have been getting 47/48 winter and 50/52 summer MPG.
I will installing Michelin Defender again which have warranty for 90,000 miles (costco).

 

Likewise too. Using 38/36 PSI on my tires. I was disappointed at first when discount tire used the PSI factory recommendation 35/33 or 36/34(not sure between the 2) and was dropping MPG. So far my sweet spot is 38/36 PSI. What PSI are you using? I'm getting an average of 55 mpg(computer) this summer. Haven't gone through the entire winter to get my winter mpg.

 

Getting back to the original post - I know it's old, but no one has answered the burning question - "Has someone driven on both (Defender and Energy Saver A/S) and which is better?"
I don't really want to drop mileage from my factory EP20's which now have just over 100,000 kilometers on them. Costco says they can order the ES, has Defenders in stock. In Canada the ES are approx $20 a tire MORE (can't figure this out when the difference in the US is about $5) so I'd have to be convinced that the Energy Savers are worth the extra money and hassle. Opinions are like armpits (!) but since I can't afford two sets of tires I'm hoping somebody out there has already had that experience... ?
Longboardluv did you ever get those tires swapped out??

 

The above is from post #11, it look like he did swap for the energy savers. No more post's from longboardluv after that on this string.

Sometimes opinions is all we can base our choices on. Unless we have personal experience with a product, the answer you seek might not get answered.

I can say this. Doing research on both the Defender and Energy Saver A/S I have learned that the defender last longer, but does not give as much MPG. It boils down to how often you are willing to replace tires versus what sort of MPG you are looking for. Also, there are reports that show the defender does cause the MPG to drop when first installed, and then after several thousand miles the MPG will improve.

Hope this helps you.

FWIW, I too ran the gamut of choices. In the end I went with the Michelin Energy Saver A/S. I am happy with my choice.

Best of luck to you.

 

I have driven through a full set of both the energy savers and defenders now. Going from the ES to defenders I figure my mileage dropped about 2-3 mpg overall. I am pretty sure the defenders are a little bit louder too. I really like the ES a lot, and if I lived in the south that is all I would put on my Prius. I also drove through an entire winter on them and found that if you are willing to take it a bit slower than normal it isn't so bad. However, I will continue to use the defenders because of the mileage warranty and the wet and snow traction is excellent. I don't have to drive slower than I normally would in slippery conditions and I feel much more comfortable in the winter with the defenders on.


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I have driven through a full set of both the energy savers and defenders now. Going from the ES to defenders I figure my mileage dropped about 2-3 mpg overall. I am pretty sure the defenders are a little bit louder too. I really like the ES a lot, and if I lived in the south that is all I would put on my Prius. I also drove through an entire winter on them and found that if you are willing to take it a bit slower than normal it isn't so bad. However, I will continue to use the defenders because of the mileage warranty and the wet and snow traction is excellent. I don't have to drive slower than I normally would in slippery conditions and I feel much more comfortable in the winter with the defenders on.


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I have driven through a full set of both the energy savers and defenders now. Going from the ES to defenders I figure my mileage dropped about 2-3 mpg overall. I am pretty sure the defenders are a little bit louder too. I really like the ES a lot, and if I lived in the south that is all I would put on my Prius. I also drove through an entire winter on them and found that if you are willing to take it a bit slower than normal it isn't so bad. However, I will continue to use the defenders because of the mileage warranty and the wet and snow traction is excellent. I don't have to drive slower than I normally would in slippery conditions and I feel much more comfortable in the winter with the defenders on.


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I have driven through a full set of both the energy savers and defenders now. Going from the ES to defenders I figure my mileage dropped about 2-3 mpg overall. I am pretty sure the defenders are a little bit louder too. I really like the ES a lot, and if I lived in the south that is all I would put on my Prius. I also drove through an entire winter on them and found that if you are willing to take it a bit slower than normal it isn't so bad. However, I will continue to use the defenders because of the mileage warranty and the wet and snow traction is excellent. I don't have to drive slower than I normally would in slippery conditions and I feel much more comfortable in the winter with the defenders on.


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That's good to know Kory, thanks for the info. What pressures are you running in your defenders and what do you figure your current MPG is? Have you noticed changes in ride comfort or noise as the defenders age? I'm in the Northwest and mostly it's rain here but can be wet snow and ice from time to time. I do install snows in early December to be safe. I guess I'm trying to make a comparison to my EP20's - I can stand a couple or 3 MPG loss but no more. It's the additional $20 per tire that ticks me off. You hate to pay more for less tire...

 

Well with the last set of defenders I was running toyota recommended pressures. I only got 45,000 miles out of them though. So I just put on a new set of defenders yesterday and I'm going to run them at 40/38 for the winter and possibly 42/40 in the summer to see if I can get the full 90k miles out of them. I've never had any traction problems in the winter with them. When they start getting under 5 mm tread depth I did notice an increase in road noise but ride comfort seemed the same. I only saw like 3 mpg drop, maximum, from the energy savers.


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Kory,

Do you have some off road driving or rough road conditions that you travel on regularly? The reason I ask is that I got almost 200K from my first set of Harmonies (now Defenders) and am at 90K on my next set and still have 8/32" on all of them. Granted I run almost exclusively highway miles but still would think 100K should be easy to reach for the Defenders.

Happy driving,
Chris

 

To Wetback:

If you got 100000 km AND good mileage out of your EP20's, maybe consider replacing with same? They're readily available. We've got a set on our (still in the family) Civic Hybrid. They were put on around 90k and the car's now at 150k. They're getting very close to replacement territory, will likely do so in spring when the snows come off.

But not a bad tire, both for RR and durability.

(I'd quote you, but I'm using a new fangled browser called IE11, and it's not working on this site)

 

Mendel, try right clicking on "reply" then click "open in new tab".

 

Thanks, worked.

(You might have attempted to 'explain that to me in my thread on this subject?)

 

Actually the only rough driving I have is during the winter time. I drive 300 miles a day and 90% is highway miles. I just went in for a rotation and they are all ready down to 9/32 with only 6500 miles on them. Although one tire was 7/32 so I'm gonna get an alignment. This is the first time either set of tires has wore unevenly so it still doesn't explain how fast the other set wore out. It has been pointed out that it's possible because of low air pressure. I've been trying to be better about keeping them at 40/38 but it's been -20 up here for three weeks so it's hard to find a gas station with their air compressor on.


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^ Consider getting a hand operated bicycle pump. It is a bit of a work out, but very convenient.

Also a good item for a survivalist kit. Ever idly wonder where the folks on Walking Dead air up?

I've got one that's working for me, but I wouldn't recommend it. There seems to be a lot of mediocre pumps. Here's a site with some ratings:

Bike Pump Reviews - OutdoorGearLab

 

I'd just like to second the opinion that Defenders are fantastic for traction. In Ohio it is very snowy this winter and I recently switched from the crappy walmart tires (Uniroyal tiger paw) my used Prius came with to Michelin defenders and the car is completely different. I switched after losing traction on a bridge at a stoplight and hitting a curb, blowing the front right tire and severely bending tie rods (I have them as souvenirs), and chose the defenders over the energy savers for the improved traction/handling - the tread life did not factor into my decision, but is a nice bonus. Even in the warm&dry, the car handles significantly better, and pushing the limits I could take certain freeway ramps over 5mph faster than before to get the same "at the limit" feeling out of the car. I'm also getting better MPG, even new, than the old tires. Really wish I'd replaced them sooner, as it likely would have saved me a repair bill.

edit: forgot, running 42/40