Bankruptcy for GM soon?

Camry comes in 4 Cyl also. Your factoid is nonsense. Actually, you were spouting 'segment' trash. So let's talk 'segments', based on Toyota's 4 Cyl car offerings ..

I'll ask again ..

What GM product shall we compare the 4 Cyl Corolla to ?
What GM product shall we compare the Echo to ?
What GM product shall we compare the 4 Cyl RAV4 to ?
What GM product shall we compare the 4 Cyl Camry to ?

After you set up the basis of comparison, I will look at emissions, FE, and reliability for a 5 year old car (you may pick any reputable site for the reliability data).

 

you missed my whole point. The majority of what Toyota sells has a competitior from chevy that gets better mpg. I agree chevy does not have a competitor for the echo, corolla or the prius. The malibu gets similar mileage to the 4 cyl camry. here is the comp between rav4 and hhr

EPA Fuel Economy

Fuel Type Regular Regular
MPG (city) 24 23
MPG (hwy) 30 30
MPG (combined) 26 25

also the Echo does not matter because toyota hardly sells any.

 

I am sure maggieddd is still laughing but i ajust am not sure what she is laughing at. It can't be the far superior mpg thta toyota's get.

 

Just my opinion...

GM has to do better than 1 MPG 'better' to get me to buy their vehicles.

I just laugh when the truck ads come on and I'm told GM trucks get better MPG than either Toyota or Ford...then the fine print pops up and it's 1 MPG difference. Oooh, just like their "hybrid" truck vs. gas-only.

Sorry, must be something else that makes me want to buy a 1 MPG 'better' vehicle (car,truck, moped, you name it).

Maybe 'perceived' quality, maybe Smartkey, maybe other features in a not so dorky design or dated technology.

Again, your reality (mileage) may vary.

 

You picked the 144 hp version, while the Rav4 has 166 hp. Try again

 

I will repeat one more time. As far as Toyota's rep for high mileage except for the prius(including a $5000 price premium) and the corolla, they are living on the past years accolades.

 

i am not trying to sell you on GM vehicles via mpg. Just trying to show you how close the mileage really is. Just wiating for the publics perception to catch up with reality.

 

Didn't someone post an article that showed that mileage was not high on the list of desirable factors for purchase?

You seem to think that one day an article is going come out and say, GM cars were the most reliable all along! I read an article that over 4million people use Consumer Reports before purchasing a vehicle. Now, you may not like it, and unless you can expose some flaws in their methods, then face facts...that is reality!

And please don't rehash that tired old story of the toyota being rebaged as a chevy...

 

And I'll say it again, too. There is no Prius 'premium'.

1) There is no directly comparable vehicle.

2) A 1 or 2 year old Prius can be worth more than it was purchased for.

3) Price comparisons tend to ignore tax rebates.

3) Price comparisons tend to ignore the costs of emissions.

 

Aww. tired of this game, already ?

Let me help you then. The 172 hp HHR is 22 city, 29 highway. Compared to the 166 hp Rav4 at 24 city, 30 highway. Rav wins

Next up, emissions (fueleconomy.gov): HHR 6/10, Rav4 7/10. Rav wins

Last (but not least by a long shot, to many, many Toyota buyers -- using 5 year CR data, since you have not provided any other): RAV4 - excellent, HHR - unknown. Rav wins by default (and probably by a long shot, given GM's cross-board reliability in 4 Cyl vehicles).

So, in this segment in which you say chevy is 'competitive', the HHR loses in each category I care about. GM can blab about 'perception' forever; Toyota buyers have facts to support their decison.

 

4 Cyl Corolla = 4 Cyl Cobalt.

4 Cyl RAV4 = HHR or VUE.

4 Cyl Camry = 4 Cyl Malibu. 4 Cyl G6.

Luckily nobody else really makes anything comprable to an Echo.

 

Now you are concentrating on the HHR? I very effectively made my point with a head-to-head comparison with more than half of Toyota's retail fleet.

I will never convince you, you would be considered a Toyota Prius enthusiast. Trying to convince you of the equality in the automobile business would be like trying to convince someone on Silverado Chat that Toyota offers a great truck. I won't waste my time.

 

Toyota sells a ton of echos. About 300 a month. Iguess not all of toyota's products are that hot.

 

You all paid at least sticker for the vehicle and what does the 'hybrid' hardware add into the cost? Do you think the depreciation factor will stick around forever? In the metro areas of the midwest I am hearing they are no longer always selling for sticker. Resale is simply a factor of the new vehicle price multiplied by the residual demand for the vehicle.

I remember the first PT Cruiser we sold, many for several thousand over sticker and today a good portion of the build goes into rental cars. Probably a severe case, but a case none-the-less.

 

Hate to break it to you, but Toyota no longer sells the Echo. It is being replaced by the Yaris from Europe. And don't say GM doesn't have a competitor, they have the Aveo. MPG: Aveo 26-35 Yaris 34-40
There is no excuse for a car like the Aveo, which is smaller than the Yaris, to get worse fuel economy. By the way, those numbers for the Aveo are rounded up, the low range is 24-34.

 

You picked the HHR, not me. I just corrected the comparison to engines with similar power. Your 'very effective' comparison ignores the fact that the Camry comes in 4 and 6 Cyl versions. And ignores the fact that almost every GM vehicle pollutes more than the equivalent Toyota. And ignores the average - horrendous reliability. And the inferior FE.

Yep, I'm just about convinced

So, what cars do you recommend that I consider from GM that have a city/hy average > 30 mpg ?

I'll leave you with a buddy's Malibu story: He bought the 2001 used in 2003. Paid 13K on a car that was 20k msrp. Two years and about ~ 11K miles later, he was paid 2K as part of a trade-in. Depreciation cost per mile: one dollar. You are welcome to try and convince him that GM is a smart buy, but I can tell you, that he turns red every time I mention the word 'malibu'. He loves his Rav4, btw.

As for me, Prius is my first Toyota.

 

GM has a rebadged Daewoo. In the same way that they have a rebadged Toyota (the Vibe).

 

The Prius was my first Toyota, and I have to say, I'm really tempted to trade it in for the 5 door version of the Malibu. It seems to be getting good reviews, is CR recommended, and just seems 'nicer' than the Prius.

But, I am basically disapointed with the 'reliability' of the Prius. It's died twice and the materials quality (not to mention fit and finish) seems very substandard. In contrast, I've had 2 GM cars in the past and a VW, and while all of them had various things go wrong, none have ever died twice on me.

I feel bad doing it, but when people ask to see it, I do try to point out the shortcomings so they know what they'll be getting, and I do mention the stalling when/if they ask about it.

 

Why haven't you ?